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YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

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Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be helpful for people who have previously come out against cancel culture and deplatforming to defend the principle for someone who is not a member of their political tribe Granted. Principle defended and censorship of other political tribes condemned. So does that mean we now get an apology from the other lot if the tables have indeed turned?

This is pretty snarky.

No more so than the original comment's presumption that "people who have previously come out against cancel culture and deplatforming" only care about the issue as some kind of tribal marker. I don't want to defend tit-for-tat snark, but it's super frustrating to see people making snide remarks about this issue even as it starts to affect their own beliefs.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#172

I think it important to entertain the possibility that this person is simply lying. I don't see any evidence that backs up his claim that this was intentional and his claim that he was visited by DHS officials is doubtful to me. There's plenty of videos like his on YouTube already, so I can't really imagine this caused a real government intervention. But maybe I missed something.

You can easily search for the exact title, order by all the right things and is not there, you can see a reaction but not the actual video. https://ibb.co/j8rbkks

Videos don't always appear in search results immediately. He could have also just unlisted the video. I've uploaded hundreds of videos and many don't really show up in the results if they are similar to many other videos.

If you just search "CIA terrorist organization" you get plenty of other video that are similar to the one described, so it's doubtful this one was censored for content.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#173

Speaking as a lurker, this seems basically like what people have been asking for for awhile now including here. I remember seeing numerous top comment chains over the last four years (and of course before that but not here) that all boiled down to very eloquent defenses of censoring fringe thinkers. Who knows, maybe in theory land there's no reason we can't have it both ways. But it seems to me that in the real world…

I think that people are increasingly getting stuck in their own filter bubbles. This leads to people drifting apart over time and into extremes. This is because there is no cohesive force getting them to think together anymore.

One proposed solution is to simply filter the more 'extreme' standpoints out of the dialogue. Hence censorship.

But I don't think that filtering and moderation are going to help much if people still stay isolated in their bubbles. All you're doing is superficially fighting symptoms; but the root cause remains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#174
This happens all the time internationally with organized and state-supported social media mobs . Interestingly, there seems to exist a law in germany that requires services like twitter to tell users when they have been flagged from accounts in germany, and this happened multiple times recently with the conflict in caucasus[1]. I wonder if youtube has something similar

1. https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1328460455380193286

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#175
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see any claim in the video that the CIA is the only organization of such sort. It might make you feel this way because it's entirely focused on the CIA. It didn't claim neither that the world would be fair without the CIA. It's definitely one-sided and is just a quick overview of the CIA (but you wouldn't expect more from a short video on such a big subject), but I fail to see how it is propaganda.

My point is not that it clears all other organizations, but doesn't even mention one other. Which is an editorial choice. edit: not only that, but also implies that the CIA actions are one-sided, as in other players were not trying to mess and do the same to harm the US in the same actions (let's say, Iran).

> but doesn't even mention one other. Which is an editorial choice.

That's some weird hot take on a 20 min video titled "The CIA is a Terrorist Organization". He's obligated to mention Moussad, KGB/FSB et al, because "both sides"?

Also last I checked, "we only did shady shit cause they did shady shit" isn't much os a defense anyway.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#176
post #93

Speaking as a lurker, this seems basically like what people have been asking for for awhile now including here. I remember seeing numerous top comment chains over the last four years (and of course before that but not here) that all boiled down to very eloquent defenses of censoring fringe thinkers. Who knows, maybe in theory land there's no reason we can't have it both ways. But it seems to me that in the real world…

At first I suspected peoples world view was build on compound falsehoods. I couldn't help but pay attention to this concept. I had to rub my eyes a few times wondering if I was not simply seeing what I was hoping to find. At later age I was seeing the unquestioned bullshit all around me. Then came a stage where I repeatedly noticed my own subscriptions to nonsense and the erroneous mindset that one would logically bu…

Logic unfortunately tends to fail in the real world. Even seemingly concrete ideas like life and death get tricky when dealing with frozen sperm and viruses. Edge cases abound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics) People really want stuff like Bayesian statistics to work. But it’s also fails for similar reasons as it depends on accurately updating a model.

The world is filled with models that are simple enough to use and accurate enough to be useful, sadly that doesn’t make them correct.

Censorship seems so simple on the surface, but like everything else the implementation rarely matches the theory. I would argue for disclaimers as a much better option, even if they also fail.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#177
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw the video as well. > First of all, the video uploader is promoting a competitor to YouTube. This is not disclaimed clearly. You are starting of by literally the last thing on the video which is the promotion of the uploader's income stream, a standard practice for full-time youtubers... to prove what? > The video goes over criticism to the CIA, which are fair enough. But it takes some things as axioms, for exam…

>The sooner people realize that, the better. Beyond that, there is an argument here for having transparent practices. There is nothing preventing youtube from saying the truth about what they do. Indeed. About the criticism, it really sounds like that to me in the video. It implies in the way it is written, and I don't wanna go over details of the script, but pay attention to moments when he mentions "like a good dem…

> The current status of world dominance/power is an evolution of previous iterations (be it good or bad). But we never had a democratic system the CIA is breaking.

True

> The video is presented in a way that if you don't know all of that you will assume the CIA is making the world bad.

Maybe true, but this is an unintended consequence. In no point does the uploader make such a claim or presents evidence to make you think of that. It's only by absence of mentions one can derrive to this false conclusion (that cia is the only such player)

Final thought, although I get your criticism of the uploader, let's say "forgeting" other players as CIA, I would argue they are the biggest and most impactful contemporary agency. Thus, although not the only one, sure the one to be most concerned about. Thus his lack of mentioning other players isn't that of a con to me. My argument is based on what we publicly know of these agencies.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women). Federalists were very clear in their commentary and design of the Constitution that they were in favor of broad federal powers and feared populism and direct democracy. The Bill of Rights wa…

People like yourself that constantly bring up the wrongs of the past and constantly remind people that things were less than perfect in the past constantly don't seem to understand that: * Much like many things society progresses, generally in the western world that progression has tended towards greater liberty (in most respects) of its citizens e.g. Tom Holland (a documentary film maker in the UK) argues the separa…

> Tom Holland... argues the separation of church and state can be traced back to the Bible and it been a steady progression to secularism from there

This is basically what's known as survivor bias. I think if you look at history you will find that power shifted to and from faith (and the church) in many waves. But true secularism was not, to my knowledge, seriously suggested for the first thousand years or more of Christian history. In a way this view of theological history suggests that there is a "true meaning" of the Bible that people didn't happen to notice for over a millennium - that the principles of modern society was always there in waiting, waiting for us to understand it. What this Tom Holland might refer to are sayings such as the phrase "Render unto Cesar the things that are Cesar's, and unto God the things that are God's", which does sound like advocating some form of secularism - to modern ears! But of course these verses had many different interpretations over the years.

Personally, I think a much better explanation is that the interpretation of religious texts always happen in a context. Like any text, I don't think it makes sense to claim that there is an interpretation of any religious text that could be called its true meaning, because meaning always arises as a dialogue between the text and its reader, which happens in a certain context, a certain point in material history. You might be able to say that there is the original intention of the authors, but this is not accessible to us. "Render unto Cesar" can perhaps easily be used as an argument for secularism in a Christian context, but I don't believe the phrase can fully explain its inception.

The Bible, like any religious text, contains the blueprint for an infinity of societies. This idea that any part of modern American society, or Hegel's 19th century Prussian society, for that matter, is the natural consequence of what's in the Bible is very strange when you look, both at everything that came before, and also the fact that a very different progression happened in many parts of the Christian world, like Ethiopia or Coptic villages in Egypt. I don't think the theory of "steady progression" holds much water unless you're extremely selective about your facts and perspective.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#179
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It s as if we rediscover liberalism in full circles

My pet theory is that there will always be a constant loop much like the prey-predator relationship. We start by going in one direction i.e. liberalism, then we realize that some pieces of authoritarianism might be good for a problem we currently have, so we water it down a bit. Fast forward 50-70 years, we realize that the balance has swung too much to one side so we try to do a sharp turn. That action causes an ove…

Fortunately -in many civilized countries- we have institutionalized and ritualized the act of having a revolution every 4 years.

As with many such rituals, -and as long as everyone sticks to the prescribed acts- this reduces the bloodshed immeasurably. With a little luck, the only victims are dead trees and broken pencils.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women). Federalists were very clear in their commentary and design of the Constitution that they were in favor of broad federal powers and feared populism and direct democracy. The Bill of Rights wa…

> Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women). This is nonsense. The US was a left-wing experiment. It was a repudiation of the way things were done in Europe. The fact that it didn't solve every single inequity in one blow is not an i…

It's understandable that you have been misled in this way; enforcing this particular myth seems to be the primary purpose of USA public schools. I recommend historian Gerald Horne. He has identified Somerset v Stewart as an important event in inspiring American slaveholders and their sometime lawyer John Adams to start the Revolutionary War. That is, they fought a war in large part so that they wouldn't have to give up the practice of slavery.
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