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NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

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Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#241

Post by thefounder »

cturner wrote: post #103
thefounder wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> motivated by standing up against the US and their illegal activities. They know they can't do much to stand up against US. I may be wrong but I think Denmark's security is based on US millitary support through NATO. This applies to most EU countries. Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Here you have it, it's no secret: Denmark opposes the creation of a "European army" to defend the E.U. fro…

I find the idea of a European army to be the stuff of fantasy. The reason Europe is so dependent on the US is because European NATO members have for decades chosen not to honour their spending and capability obligations to that treaty. Certainly this includes Denmark. A quick google suggests this rich nation is spending 1.3% instead of the 2% minimum. Meanwhile, Russia, a less prosperous nation with a history of musc…

When the U.S says that more should be spent on NATO that usually means to buy more U.S equipment at inflated prices rather than to make Europe's defense more effective and efficient.

>> The European group have no history of coordinated executive action.

Yeah, perhaps they should start working on a coordinated executive action(i.e an EU army) or...just accept US protection for a "fee". It's been a good trade so far anyway. The only issue is that recently US started to double guess its past agreements.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#242

Post by JumpCrisscross »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #222
themihai wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark is not France and Denmark has no guarantee that France would step in to stop a Russian invasion.

Why on Earth would Russia invade Denmark?

> Why on Earth would Russia invade Denmark?

Denmark, no clue. But Greenland? The Arctic Circle is of increasing geopolitical importance and competition between Russia and America.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#243

Post by jeroenhd »

I can't say I'm surprised they spied on their allies, it's a US spy agency after all. It does underline the fact that countries within the EU should move away from US deals for industries their member states compete in. The US simply cannot be trusted.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#244

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mrweasel wrote: post #154
hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

What I don't get is why the US doesn't just ask the questions they would like to have answered. In most cases our politicians would pretty much just tell them what they need to know. In the case of the F35 it especially make no sense, AT ALL. The selection process for a new fighter jet was so heavily skewed in favor of the F35 that other manufacturers didn't even want to bid. At no point did anyone seriously believe…

> What I don't get is why the US doesn't just ask the questions they would like to have answered. In most cases our politicians would pretty much just tell them what they need to know.

I imagine part of the mission is counter-intelligence. Verifying Danish negotiators aren't leaking sensitive information to e.g. Russia or China. In those cases, the NSA is probing for information the politicians do not have.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#245

Post by hestefisk »

virgilp wrote: post #238
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on Earth would Russia invade Denmark?

Why on Earth would Russia invade Ukraine?

Because Putin historically has boosted his popular vote by creating a foreign enemy and being the tough guy.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#246

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

LunaSea wrote: post #162
elmo2you wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well Russia already annexed Crimea .. Yet another show of either (willful) ignorance or (intentional) peddling of (Western) propaganda. People may think whatever they want about what happened to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, but to called that an annexation (or an invasion, as many have) is disingenuous as best. It's no secret (in fact, it's on public record) that it was the USA who pumped copious amounts of money in…

The facts remain: - Ukraine was an independent country that got invaded by a neighbouring country's military - Georgia was an independent country that got invaded by a neighbouring country's military Russia also regularly crosses neighbouring countries' (Sweden, Finland, Alaska, etc.) borders with fighter planes, boats and submarines.

Georgia is much more complicated. Georgia invaded the de facto independent state of South Ossetia. Russia sent troops into South Ossetia to repel the Georgian invasion and then chased Georgian troops into Georgia proper.

South Ossetia was an autonomous oblast in the Georgian SSR. When the USSR disintegrated, Georgia and South Ossetia fought a war, which ended up with a truce that lasted until the Georgian invasion in 2008.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#247

Post by lowdose »

thefounder wrote: post #88
hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

>> motivated by standing up against the US and their illegal activities. They know they can't do much to stand up against US. I may be wrong but I think Denmark's security is based on US millitary support through NATO. This applies to most EU countries. Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Here you have it, it's no secret: Denmark opposes the creation of a "European army" to defend the E.U. fro…

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday called for creating a European Union army, stressing that Europeans can no longer merely rely on the U.S. for their security.

African population is going to quadruple by 2100.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#248

Post by koheripbal »

themihai wrote: post #200
coldtea wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They know they can't do much to stand up against US. I may be wrong but I think Denmark's security is based on US millitary support through NATO. This applies to most EU countries. Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. It's amazing how this Cold War old-wives-tale is still what Americans believe... Russia is not USSR - a superpower with half of Europe under its wings -, and is not a threat to…

>> Russia is not USSR But it wants the Soviet Union back. >> and is not a threat to anyone Ukraine would not agree with that. Russia took Crimea and is supporting a civil war in eastern Ukraine. This may not be much for you but >> except immediate neighbors Yeah except the immediate neighbours and then the neighbours of the neighbours. Think of the Soviet Union era... Speaking of neighbours Denmark, Sweden, Lithuania…

This is an important thing to note about Europe - they don't really care about the security of other European nations. There's no sense of unity.

If there were, they would collectively take a much much harder stance with Russia. This is why Eastern Europe is so much more pro-USA than Western Europe.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#249

Post by SilentBan »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #222
themihai wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark is not France and Denmark has no guarantee that France would step in to stop a Russian invasion.

Why on Earth would Russia invade Denmark?

In order to gain a direct way to the Atlantic ocean. They can currently reach it trough the Arctic Ocean and Black Sea -> Mediterranean Sea. But direct way will be nice. Another reason would be to insert themselves between Scandinavia and Germany.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#250

Post by SilentBan »

mschuster91 wrote: post #112
jmnicolas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Come on stop spreading this dumb western propaganda, Russia isn't threatening anybody in western Europe. They took Crimea back and sabotaged Ukraine because strategically they can't afford to have yet another NATO country right at their doorstep. They're not going to invade Poland any time soon (what for anyway?). They're not crazy nor blood thirsty. This…

They have literally been caught financing Brexit and every major alt-right, antidemocratic, Europe-skeptic party there is - Germany's AfD, France's FN, Italy's Salvini bunch. Russia is a threat to democracy and an enemy of Europe, directly competing with China.

The Russian brigade is doing great job downvoting you. This is another proof that you are right.
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