Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#591

Post by svachalek » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

tonyjstark wrote: post #507

One thing missing, deeply missing is priced updates. This would enable developers to earn continuously by maintaining and improve their apps. It would also reduce the incentive to produce throw-away apps. Lately it would it make less needed to shoehorn subscriptions into apps. I welcome the 15% change but it's more PR than actually helping. More helpful would also be better tools to increase visibility in the App Sto…

It's better to leave basic updates for OS changes, security, etc free but charge for new features as in-app purchases. Unfortunately most users expect free upgrades for life for their $2 purchase so this makes life very hard for non-game developers.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#592

Post by fbelzile » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

medhir wrote: post #523

The core problem here is that Apple is still disallowing users from side-loading / installing iOS apps from outside of the official App Store. My question: what is stopping us from demanding a legislative solution that requires Apple to open up the iOS platform to allow installation of apps outside its sanctioned ecosystem? With ARM Macs now on the market, the hardware architecture / software differences between thei…

> What is stopping us from demanding a legislative solution that requires Apple to open up the iOS platform to allow installation of apps outside its sanctioned ecosystem?

Apple is already tying two products together (App Store commissions and iOS). I think the answer is to have a court opinion declare that app store commissions are not naturally related to iOS. It shouldn't be too hard to prove this given that third-party developers are not the same developers that created iOS and that iOS is a fully-featured enough to be considered a general computing device.

There's already legal precedence for this with United Sates v. Microsoft where Microsoft tried to ban Netscape and Java from being installed on Windows [1]. Epic could/should be using that in their lawsuit in order to be allowed to run on iOS. The App Store is Apple's territory, and that's fine. iOS isn't the App Store and the user should have the right in deciding what code runs on the device they purchased.

> Tying is the practice of selling one product or service (ie: commissions from App Store) as a mandatory addition to the purchase of a different product or service (ie: iPhone). In legal terms, a tying sale makes the sale of one good (the tying good) to the de facto customer (or de jure customer) conditional on the purchase of a second distinctive good (the tied good). Tying is often illegal when the products are not naturally related. In the United States, most states have laws against tying, which are enforced by state governments. In addition, the U.S. Department of Justice enforces federal laws against tying through its Antitrust Division. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#593

Post by threeseed » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

psahgal wrote: post #581

threeseed wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that Apple controls the payment system. It means I have one place to manage subscriptions, one place with my credit card details, one place to manage family payments and all of it is from a company that can be trusted to do things in a secure and private way. Do you really want the likes of PayPal or Epic to dominate mobile App Store payments ?

The web has a wide variety of payment processors, but that doesn't seem to slow down online purchasing.

No one is saying that it would slow down purchasing.

Only that it is user-hostile which services like Paypal absolutely are.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#594

Post by singemonkey » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

varispeed wrote: post #146

breakfastduck wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 'maintain' - its offer all the services that come along with it (integrations, store, download, hosting, authentication). If you produce a food product, you should expect the store to take a cut of the price before it gets to you.

These things that you listed are not that expensive to run. If you produce a food product you can also set up your own store, but you can't in case of Apple.

You probably upvoted that guy who was sure he could build Dropbox in a weekend.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#595

Post by 0xffff2 » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:50 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #447

TillE wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about a once-in-a-generation indie hit (which arguably started before Steam was omnipresent), and a game which was made and published by a big company. This is not the norm.

> (which arguably started before Steam was omnipresent) This just isn't true, Steam had almost no competition in 2008. Microsoft didn't even have an app store till 2012, Epic certainly didn't, EA Origin is 2011.

Steam lacking competition doesn't imply that it was omnipresent. I remember a long period where Steam existed but the overwhelmingly most common method of distribution was a box with CD(s) in it (or, since I was a poor student at the time, illicit download).

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#596

Post by jimmydorry » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

badsectoracula wrote: post #585

threeseed wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is exactly what would happen if there were third party app stores. It would be a race to the bottom where they all ended up with zero margins but where your data is sold to third parties.

How does me being able to install an application i downloaded from F-Droid, GitHub or whatever other place i might trust or even developed myself on my phone without having to pay or get Apple's permission mean that Apple will sell my data to 3rd parties?

Not GP, but if enough people were conditioned to install their apps from sources outside of the appstore, Apple may end up seeing their AppStore margins shrink and do a pivot to selling user data.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#597

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:54 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #589

karolkozub wrote: post #47

Wow. That's amazing. That's a 20% increase in revenue for those eligible. I'm guessing they decided the increased value of their products from more smaller developers creating apps for the platform is greater than the lost revenue. If I understand correctly though, since it's a hard cutoff it creates this gap between 1m and ~1.2m where you're actually worse off by making more money pre-tax. 999k --[-15%]--> 849k 1000…

> I'm guessing they decided the increased value of their products from more smaller developers creating apps for the platform is greater than the lost revenue. My guess is that creating apps for the App store is actually far less profitable than Apple wants us to believe. That is, unless you are a large publisher. I'd really like to see the distribution here, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a huge income gap.

Everyone I personally know who _made bank_ from iPhone and Android apps over the past 11 years did so by being paid to make the apps for other people who thought they had a great idea for an app...

"In a gold rush, you don't get rich by digging for gold - you get rich by selling shovels"

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#598

Post by yoz-y » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

jimmydorry wrote: post #596

badsectoracula wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does me being able to install an application i downloaded from F-Droid, GitHub or whatever other place i might trust or even developed myself on my phone without having to pay or get Apple's permission mean that Apple will sell my data to 3rd parties?

Not GP, but if enough people were conditioned to install their apps from sources outside of the appstore, Apple may end up seeing their AppStore margins shrink and do a pivot to selling user data.

That's not it, even with the numbers Apple touts they are getting from the App Store, they could comfortably live without.

It's the third party app stores that would sell the aggregate data instead of taking a cut off sales.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#599

Post by freedomben » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #586

neolog wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not get an Android device?

Android is hobbled, as well. The only way to implement automatic upgrading, background installation or batch upgrading/installation of apps is via the Play Store. Not only that, but most people have no idea how to side load apps, and Android doesn't make it easy. Both Google and Apple have kept a stranglehold on the mobile app distribution market for over a decade now.

> Not only that, but most people have no idea how to side load apps, and Android doesn't make it easy.

I completely disagree. I'm not sure how they could make it much easier without defaulting to allowing it. Download the APK, open it, click install (or if the setting disallows it, follow the prompt to change the setting).

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#600

Post by koyote » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #476

kqvamxurcagg wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree you. It's intolerable that Apple has been allowed to lockdown their device for 10 years, completely control the market for apps and when it looks like regulators will take action they reduce their price and claim to be acting in the interest of small business. Third party app stores must be allowed. Apple should not be allowed to dictate what software I can and cannot have on my device.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I think Apple controlling the App Store is one of the best decision that's ever been made for 95% of consumers. My 82-year-old mom's desktop computer is riddled with spyware, browser toolbars, and other garbage. Her iPhone is pristine and works as well as it did the day she got it. That's because Apple refuses to allow that garbage to make it to the App Store. Yes, there's so…

Apple is free to control their app store just like Google controls its app store. But they shouldn't be able to block you from running other app stores or sideloading applications.

Your 82-year-old mum's iphone wouldn't behave any differently but other people will be able to go into the developer settings and tick an option that will allow them to install non-app store apps. That's how it works on Android.