Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#571

Post by GloriousKoji » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

AriaMinaei wrote: post #63

Classic antitrust maneuver; divide and conquer, this time from Apple. Antitrust activists shouldn't let this dull their pencil. The main issue is not the exorbitant commission rate. Apple is hurting the consumers via its anti-competitive behavior with regards to what apps people are and are not allowed to install on a device that they've paid for. They are blocking value creation up and down the stack in a manner tha…

One could argue that it's pro-consumer since curation of apps supposedly protects them from apps with malicious intentions (yes, the execution of this isn't perfect). It also guarantees a level of software quality associated with their devices.

But what's obviously anti-consumer to me is the in app payment system. They take their 30% cut and forbid you from even hinting at alternative means to pay for something to use in an app.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#572

Post by Twisell » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #460

jclardy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are almost correct - it goes by the prior years income, but based on the 30% cut. Meaning if you sold 1m in products you would still be in the 15% bracket next year. You would need ~1.43m in sales to be "Moved up" the next year (It gets more complicated with subscription revenue already having a 30/15 cut depending on the user's subscription length.) It works out to this (Using 1m in sales as the cutoff to simpli…

Thank You for the explanation. This is increasingly reading more like a dick move for PR than anything else. Why cant it just be simple where your First $1M will be 15% bracket regardless of total sales.

Or maybe this is just PR with a clear but maybe oversimplified statement...

Yet they have 2 full year to see how it goes and work around all the edge case. I bet nobody except professional haters will complain if they soften the rules in 18 months.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#573

Post by neolog » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

medhir wrote: post #523

The core problem here is that Apple is still disallowing users from side-loading / installing iOS apps from outside of the official App Store. My question: what is stopping us from demanding a legislative solution that requires Apple to open up the iOS platform to allow installation of apps outside its sanctioned ecosystem? With ARM Macs now on the market, the hardware architecture / software differences between thei…

Why not get an Android device?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#574

Post by jonatanheyman » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #296

kqvamxurcagg wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree you. It's intolerable that Apple has been allowed to lockdown their device for 10 years, completely control the market for apps and when it looks like regulators will take action they reduce their price and claim to be acting in the interest of small business. Third party app stores must be allowed. Apple should not be allowed to dictate what software I can and cannot have on my device.

Why not get another device? Third party app stores break the security model for regular users. Smartphones have seen explosive growth because normal people can use them safely.

> Smartphones have seen explosive growth because normal people can use them safely.

Can you back this claim with a source? How do you explain that Android smartphones has grown even more than iOS, despite the fact that they allow you to install whatever apps you choose?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#575

Post by myroon5 » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

"The move could help Apple deflect scrutiny of its commission without costing it much.

The change will affect roughly 98% of developers who pay the commission -- but they account for less than 5% of Apple’s overall App Store revenues, according to @SensorTower"

- https://twitter.com/jacknicas/status/1329025297082150912

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#576

Post by threeseed » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

GloriousKoji wrote: post #571

AriaMinaei wrote: post #63

Classic antitrust maneuver; divide and conquer, this time from Apple. Antitrust activists shouldn't let this dull their pencil. The main issue is not the exorbitant commission rate. Apple is hurting the consumers via its anti-competitive behavior with regards to what apps people are and are not allowed to install on a device that they've paid for. They are blocking value creation up and down the stack in a manner tha…

One could argue that it's pro-consumer since curation of apps supposedly protects them from apps with malicious intentions (yes, the execution of this isn't perfect). It also guarantees a level of software quality associated with their devices. But what's obviously anti-consumer to me is the in app payment system. They take their 30% cut and forbid you from even hinting at alternative means to pay for something to us…

I love that Apple controls the payment system.

It means I have one place to manage subscriptions, one place with my credit card details, one place to manage family payments and all of it is from a company that can be trusted to do things in a secure and private way.

Do you really want the likes of PayPal or Epic to dominate mobile App Store payments ?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#577

Post by halfnormalform » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

neolog wrote: post #573

medhir wrote: post #523

The core problem here is that Apple is still disallowing users from side-loading / installing iOS apps from outside of the official App Store. My question: what is stopping us from demanding a legislative solution that requires Apple to open up the iOS platform to allow installation of apps outside its sanctioned ecosystem? With ARM Macs now on the market, the hardware architecture / software differences between thei…

Why not get an Android device?

Because they sell your digital soul to advertisers.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#578

Post by threeseed » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

halfnormalform wrote: post #577

neolog wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not get an Android device?

Because they sell your digital soul to advertisers.

Which is exactly what would happen if there were third party app stores.

It would be a race to the bottom where they all ended up with zero margins but where your data is sold to third parties.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#579

Post by bigiain » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

karolkozub wrote: post #47

Wow. That's amazing. That's a 20% increase in revenue for those eligible. I'm guessing they decided the increased value of their products from more smaller developers creating apps for the platform is greater than the lost revenue. If I understand correctly though, since it's a hard cutoff it creates this gap between 1m and ~1.2m where you're actually worse off by making more money pre-tax. 999k --[-15%]--> 849k 1000…

At least in the first year you exceed 1mil, it’s more like:

  999k  --[-15%]                  --> 849k
  1000k --[-15%x1000k] [-30%x0]   --> 850k
  1213k --[-15%x1000k] [-30%x213k]--> 999k

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#580

Post by psahgal » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #560

psahgal wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This IGN article from 2019 has a good summary of how much each digital storefront takes in revenue cut! https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut... Nintendo also takes a 30% cut, although it used to be 35% for WiiWare games. This does NOT include the cost of acquiring development hardware, which usually sets you back $1000 at most. 30% is actually the industry standard; Steam takes 30% and Epic Ga…

> there are really only two options: Android or iOS Now, you subtly moved the goalposts here. I'm not even saying you did it on purpose, just drawing attention to it. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, are hardware manufacturers with integrated, proprietary software stacks, just like Apple. Androids are made by dozens of manufacturers, and you can side load, use the App Store of your choice, and so on. The fact that Play…

I agree with your argument that the policies on iOS app development are similar to the policies enforced by console manufacturers. I think any regulation pushed onto Apple to open up the App Store will actually affect the home console market, too.

I'm just struggling to figure out why the PERCEPTION is very different between iOS and the home console market. It feels like many iPhone users do not believe their smartphone can be substituted with one from another manufacturer. Those same users also complain that they're locked into the App Store. (I think there's a few people in the comments here that have done exactly that.)

At the same time, the majority of mobile app revenue is coming from iOS, which is pushing app developers to the platform, even though they dislike the terms of the App Store.

I'm not sure what the solution is here, but an ecosystem with a large number of members who are unhappy with the status quo doesn't seem very sustainable.