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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#581

Post by psahgal »

threeseed wrote: post #576
GloriousKoji wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that it's pro-consumer since curation of apps supposedly protects them from apps with malicious intentions (yes, the execution of this isn't perfect). It also guarantees a level of software quality associated with their devices. But what's obviously anti-consumer to me is the in app payment system. They take their 30% cut and forbid you from even hinting at alternative means to pay for something to us…

I love that Apple controls the payment system. It means I have one place to manage subscriptions, one place with my credit card details, one place to manage family payments and all of it is from a company that can be trusted to do things in a secure and private way. Do you really want the likes of PayPal or Epic to dominate mobile App Store payments ?

The web has a wide variety of payment processors, but that doesn't seem to slow down online purchasing.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#582

Post by samatman »

psahgal wrote: post #580
samatman wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are really only two options: Android or iOS Now, you subtly moved the goalposts here. I'm not even saying you did it on purpose, just drawing attention to it. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, are hardware manufacturers with integrated, proprietary software stacks, just like Apple. Androids are made by dozens of manufacturers, and you can side load, use the App Store of your choice, and so on. The fact that Play…

I agree with your argument that the policies on iOS app development are similar to the policies enforced by console manufacturers. I think any regulation pushed onto Apple to open up the App Store will actually affect the home console market, too. I'm just struggling to figure out why the PERCEPTION is very different between iOS and the home console market. It feels like many iPhone users do not believe their smartph…

> I'm just struggling to figure out why the PERCEPTION is very different between iOS and the home console market.

I think a lot of it is the Hacker News effect. Folks around here take free-as-in-free-software seriously, and good for them (us). I'm confident the median iPhone user just downloads apps and uses them; they haven't thought much about alternate app stores and probably wouldn't use them if they were available. I'm pretty sure that iPhone users who complain about software freedom are a tiny minority of all users, especially since the wild world of rooted Android phones is out there for people who feel strongly about such things.

I do get your point, though: consoles are luxury playthings if you're not in professional esports, and phones are a de facto necessity of modern life. It doesn't follow that most, or even many, iPhone users, are discontented with Apple's policies: I figure the bulk of them haven't thought about it once, quite sure my mother and brother haven't.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#583

Post by toyg »

threeseed wrote: post #578
halfnormalform wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they sell your digital soul to advertisers.

Which is exactly what would happen if there were third party app stores. It would be a race to the bottom where they all ended up with zero margins but where your data is sold to third parties.

Nobody would stop a quality alternative from holding out. Not unlike Apple surviving the onslaught of cheap PC clones.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#584

Post by toyg »

dalbasal wrote: post #189
karolkozub wrote: post #47

Wow. That's amazing. That's a 20% increase in revenue for those eligible. I'm guessing they decided the increased value of their products from more smaller developers creating apps for the platform is greater than the lost revenue. If I understand correctly though, since it's a hard cutoff it creates this gap between 1m and ~1.2m where you're actually worse off by making more money pre-tax. 999k --[-15%]--> 849k 1000…

As some of these platforms/markets mature, and the policies managing them... running a platform gets similar to running a country. Progressive taxation. Loopholes or anti-loopholes in this case. MSFT basically has an IRS.

Indeed. They are effectively running a country - just it's a digital one.

Cyberpunk always wins, in the long run.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#585

Post by badsectoracula »

threeseed wrote: post #578
halfnormalform wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they sell your digital soul to advertisers.

Which is exactly what would happen if there were third party app stores. It would be a race to the bottom where they all ended up with zero margins but where your data is sold to third parties.

How does me being able to install an application i downloaded from F-Droid, GitHub or whatever other place i might trust or even developed myself on my phone without having to pay or get Apple's permission mean that Apple will sell my data to 3rd parties?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#586

Post by heavyset_go »

neolog wrote: post #573
medhir wrote: post #523

The core problem here is that Apple is still disallowing users from side-loading / installing iOS apps from outside of the official App Store. My question: what is stopping us from demanding a legislative solution that requires Apple to open up the iOS platform to allow installation of apps outside its sanctioned ecosystem? With ARM Macs now on the market, the hardware architecture / software differences between thei…

Why not get an Android device?

Android is hobbled, as well. The only way to implement automatic upgrading, background installation or batch upgrading/installation of apps is via the Play Store. Not only that, but most people have no idea how to side load apps, and Android doesn't make it easy.

Both Google and Apple have kept a stranglehold on the mobile app distribution market for over a decade now.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#587

Post by fbelzile »

samatman wrote: post #555
fbelzile wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is good news. But let's keep "selfish motives of two different parties" in perspective to the size and power of one side over the other. This program came in after more than decade after the app store was created and when Apple is finally under increased public scrutiny for anti-competitive behaviour. Apple made an estimated $20 billion from the app store last year alone with estimated profits from…

> Why were they able to take 30% and continue to take 15% commission off of all sales? Because the value of the app store is only created via continued practices of anti-competitive behaviour. Also, because Apple created the most valuable mobile software market in the world, by creating the iPhone, continuing to release top-notch phones year after year, and by creating the App Store itself. It remains true that iPhon…

> Also, because Apple created the most valuable mobile software market in the world,

No, they created the possibility for the most valuable mobile software market in the world. Third-party developers were the ones that created it into the most valuable mobile software market in the world.

> by creating the iPhone

Creating the iPhone does not explain the source of the App Store's value, only that one is "tied" to the other. Which leads to my next point.

> You can describe this as anti-competitive, just keep in mind that you're assuming your own conclusion.

It's anti-competitive according to the law. The practice of selling a service (ie: commissions from App Store) as a mandatory addition to the purchase of a different product (ie: iPhone) is called tying. In the United States, most states have laws against tying, which are enforced by state governments. In addition, the U.S. Department of Justice enforces federal laws against tying through its Antitrust Division [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#589

Post by amelius »

karolkozub wrote: post #47

Wow. That's amazing. That's a 20% increase in revenue for those eligible. I'm guessing they decided the increased value of their products from more smaller developers creating apps for the platform is greater than the lost revenue. If I understand correctly though, since it's a hard cutoff it creates this gap between 1m and ~1.2m where you're actually worse off by making more money pre-tax. 999k --[-15%]--> 849k 1000…

> I'm guessing they decided the increased value of their products from more smaller developers creating apps for the platform is greater than the lost revenue.

My guess is that creating apps for the App store is actually far less profitable than Apple wants us to believe. That is, unless you are a large publisher.

I'd really like to see the distribution here, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a huge income gap.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#590

Post by toyg »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #513

There's a lot of negativity on this thread. It is understandable when you cynically look at this as just a PR move that will cost them less in the long run if it helps with current and future antitrust investigations. But what a lot of folks are missing is how much this will help indie-developers and small businesses that want to pay themselves and their employees better and more easily put food on the table. So whil…

Sure. And you know who we should celebrate for this improvement? Epic Games and antitrust authorities. So let's put more wind behind their sails! Let's keep pushing and finally get a fair market that will benefit everyone fairly, and not just Apple.
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