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South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

thehill.com

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Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#311

Post by evgen »

Impashin wrote: post #227
CerealFounder wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not sure why this is downvoted, especially on a site like HN. If you had a CEO that was anti tracking CAC and just said, doing marketing is enough. The corporate culture of employees would drift toward not tracking CAC (cost of acquisition), even though none of the employees are obligated to buy into that. The thing that is lost on the national vs state debate is that the presidents role in a our state powered rep…

In America, any power not explicitly granted to the federal government is left to the states. If Biden wins, this fact does not change, and he cannot enforce any policy regarding masks. "Marketing" from the President is irrelevant here as demonstrated by coding123's comment: > even the republican counties are under a mask order > Grocery stores even are employing someone to just stand there and either hand a cheapy s…

> In America, any power not explicitly granted to the federal government is left to the states.

I am amused that anyone other than a small child still believes this. The 9th and 10th have been phantoms for longer than you have been alive and are of absolutely no consequence whatsoever.

Oh yeah, there is no 'if' there buddy. Biden won and will be able to enforce any public health measures available to him via executive order starting January 20th.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#312

Post by clairity »

chillwaves wrote: post #299
coding123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually the state governments that's at fault here. Not the specifically the people. Let me tell you I was in back-country Oregon recently, some of the MOST republican places within Oregon, not going to name drop the county. Anyway, the Oregon state government is very much democratic (cause you know Portland). But because of that, even the republican counties are under a mask order. And the extremely red counti…

You know who else has the power to lead people and states? The federal government. Almost like they were empowered specifically for this kind of scenario.

no, the federal government exists to defend the interests of the states, and resolve disputes between them. it's not meant to be a higher level of authority.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#313

Post by NoSorryCannot »

School-Cotton wrote: post #295
benhurmarcel wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spain was forbidding people from leaving their homes except for essentials, and now they're worse off than the US in terms of hospitalizations and deaths. That second wave has started months after Spain lifted all those restrictions.

Yes, that is exactly the point. Lockdowns don’t make all of this go away sooner, because as soon as you lift them, the outbreak resumes.

It was only ever supposed to buy us time (to develop treatments, vaccines, reorganize workplaces) and avoid overwhelming the capacity of services like hospitals.

I don't think anyone credible has said that lockdowns were going to put the genie back in the bottle. It is only one component of a complete response.

They _have_ argued that a complete response might permit more economic normalcy somewhat sooner, and that appears to be bearing out.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#314

Post by dragonwriter »

Impashin wrote: post #270
uoaei wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The state" refers to the governing apparatus, not a particular state within the union. I understand there may be some confusion if you are not familiar with the US government and typical ways of talking about it.

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-10/ Please cite me where the power to enact a requirement to wear masks is explicitly granted to the federal government. I'll wait.

> Please cite me where the power to enact a requirement to wear masks is explicitly granted to the federal government.

Depends on the nature of the mandate. A simple hard mandate (everyone must wear masks in public or be subject individually to federal sanction) may not be authorized, but that's not the only shape of mask mandate possible.

A requirement that a state adopt and show adequate enforcement of control measures deemed necessary by the federal government, including (if deemed necessary) a mask mandate with given parameters or be subject to additional restrictions on interstate trade and travel to restrict the spread of disease to other states is absolutely not only within the scope of the Constitutional power of the federal government under the Commerce Clause, but also within statutory powers already granted to the executive branch under that Constitutional power, in the Public Health Services Act and elsewhere.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#315

Post by d1zzy »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #187
hcknwscommenter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain did do real lockdowns and it worked. And then they stopped doing real lockdowns. So it is in fact supported by the evidence.

It didn’t solve the problem, meaning, unless you are willing to lock down indefinitely, the virus will come back. So in the pedantic sense you are right, lockdowns work, but clearly are not a solution.

Depends on what problem you are trying to solve. If you are trying to make COVID19 go extinct then yes, lockdowns aren't sufficient. If you are trying to avoid overwhelming health care resources (so they are available to dying patients of all kinds) then it can help as it reduces the hospitalization rate.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#316

Post by GregarianChild »

irq11 wrote: post #261
mike_h wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Taiwan, it's all of East Asia. At this point it's beyond irresponsible for people to keep comparing the US's handling to other Western nations – EA showed how it's done (in both democratic and autocratic societies), but we have some weird cultural blind spot that makes us not want to see.

The problem is, there is no “how it’s done” to point to. All of the east asian countries did radically different things. Taiwan slammed it’s borders shut before cases got into the country, and hasn’t done much else. Korea adopted large-scale contact tracing and isolation interventions. China uses authoritarian rule to lock people up when they have it. Japan hasn’t tested much at all, kept offices and restaurants open…

Your description of Taiwan's response is wrong.

As outlined in [2] I linked to above, Taiwan permitted the docking of the Diamond Princess [1] and allowed passengers to disembark in Keelung (near Taipei), on 31 January, before the ship left for Japan. The ship was subsequently found to have numerous confirmed infections onboard. In reaction, Taiwan's government published the 50 locations where the cruise ship travelers may have visited and asked around 600k citizens who may have been in contact with the tour group to conduct symptom monitoring and self-quarantine if necessary. So at least in the beginning of the pandemic, Taiwan was not closing the doors. Today, Taiwan has essentially the same 14-days entry quarantine as most countries. Another important difference is that Taiwan takes quarantine very seriously and monitored those sent into quarantine via mobile phone location tracking. That too is outlined in [2]. Police will talk to you if mobile phone movements indicate that 14 day quarantine is violated. In contrast, quarantine is de facto voluntary in many European countries.

There is no good reason as far as I can see, why other countries don't adopt similar policies.

I must admit, I am not pleased that I am loosing 1 year of my life because the countries that I live in are not adopting best practises. Indeed, are mostly not even aware of them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Princess_(ship)

[2] C. Y. Wang, C. Y. Ng, R. H. Brook, Response to COVID-19 in Taiwan: Big Data Analytics, New Technology, and Proactive Testing, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#317

Post by Loughla »

irq11 wrote: post #261
mike_h wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Taiwan, it's all of East Asia. At this point it's beyond irresponsible for people to keep comparing the US's handling to other Western nations – EA showed how it's done (in both democratic and autocratic societies), but we have some weird cultural blind spot that makes us not want to see.

The problem is, there is no “how it’s done” to point to. All of the east asian countries did radically different things. Taiwan slammed it’s borders shut before cases got into the country, and hasn’t done much else. Korea adopted large-scale contact tracing and isolation interventions. China uses authoritarian rule to lock people up when they have it. Japan hasn’t tested much at all, kept offices and restaurants open…

It seems to me that the one difference that is just stark, between the US and all of those cultures, is that they already had a system wherein it was acceptable (or even encouraged) to wear a face mask.

Is it that? Is it that simple? Those are honest questions.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#318

Post by chillwaves »

gruez wrote: post #233
bleepblorp wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market is right there, refusing to address shortages and price gouging you for essential supplies. A few people are getting rich and many people are being put at risk, but the free market is fine with this. Meanwhile, in South Korea, the government adopted a non-free-market solution and has been making KN95 masks available to its population through a combination of rationing and subsidies. Everyone has acces…

>The free market is right there, refusing to address shortages and price gouging you for essential supplies It's hardly a free market when there's anti price gouging laws.

So if we let them take more advantage of the situation then it will improve?

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#319

Post by chillwaves »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #166
anoonmoose wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basis most people provide is either an inaccurate or incomplete understanding of the rights given to US citizens by the Constitution of the United States, unfortunately.

And your statement shows you do not understand the constitution, or more specifically the bill of rights. You are not given them, they are recognized as natural rights not government granted rights, and the bill of rights merely recognizes them. If someone doesn’t want to wear a mask that is their choice. Your choice is to avoid situations where you might be in contact with people who don’t wear masks. It’s not to fo…

And it's the choice of private businesses or public government services to require face masks.

No different than requiring you to wear shirts and shoes.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#320

Post by rzz3 »

Rooster61 wrote: post #298
Animats wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grocery stores even are employing someone to just stand there and either hand a cheapy surg. mask or tell them to put one on. In the more advanced countries, such as Thailand, this is automated.[1] The store entrance gate won't open until the automated face scan has seen a mask. Hikvision has a mask and temperature detection system integrated with their face recognition systems.[2] If you already have a face recognit…

> In the more advanced countries, such as Thailand, this is automated. Having facial recognition everywhere isn't necessarily considered "advanced" in all circles. Technically, perhaps. Ethically? Not so much. Facial recognition could be put everywhere in the US. Its primarily the political, legal, and social culture that prevents it, not the access to sufficient technology.

Facial recognition everywhere is a horrifying thought.
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