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South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

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Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#221

Post by RonaldRaygun »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #166
anoonmoose wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basis most people provide is either an inaccurate or incomplete understanding of the rights given to US citizens by the Constitution of the United States, unfortunately.

And your statement shows you do not understand the constitution, or more specifically the bill of rights. You are not given them, they are recognized as natural rights not government granted rights, and the bill of rights merely recognizes them. If someone doesn’t want to wear a mask that is their choice. Your choice is to avoid situations where you might be in contact with people who don’t wear masks. It’s not to fo…

> If someone doesn’t want to wear a mask that is their choice. Your choice is to avoid situations where you might be in contact with people who don’t wear masks.

Do you also believe this about laws prohibiting drunk driving, or regulating seatbelt wearing and the side of the road you're allowed to drive on? OSHA rules around workplace safety, hardhats, fall protection? I'll wait to see if the anti-mask crowd crusades against the infringement of their "right" to drive intoxicated. Otherwise, I'll continue to see it for what it is: Political virtue signaling and contrarianism sans empathy.

It should be (and is) perfectly possible to legally avoid wearing a mask in places with mask regulations. You may do this by avoiding public places.

> It’s not to force everyone into your beliefs.

Strange how selectively this idea is applied by some in this country.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#222

Post by benhurmarcel »

orangecat wrote: post #85
skyzyx wrote: post #26

Yes, the pandemic fatigue is real. Yes, it would be wonderful to hang out with my friends in person, or to drive 100 miles crossing the border to go visit my children. But the reason this is lasting so long, and things are shutting back down is because people are ignoring the truth. You can talk about the economy all day long, but the fact of the matter is that if we all would’ve taken this seriously and shut everyth…

the fact of the matter is that if we all would’ve taken this seriously and shut everything down, we would be through the worst of it already This isn't supported by the available evidence. Spain was forbidding people from leaving their homes except for essentials, and now they're worse off than the US in terms of hospitalizations and deaths. Many other countries also had stronger lockdowns that have not spared them f…

> Spain was forbidding people from leaving their homes except for essentials, and now they're worse off than the US in terms of hospitalizations and deaths.

That second wave has started months after Spain lifted all those restrictions.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#223

Post by GordonS »

istorical wrote: post #43
remote_phone wrote: post #31

Basically the US’s complete disregard for public education is now coming to a head. I remember one study that said the US students were one of the lowest in terms of education but the absolute highest in terms of self confidence. We are reaping what we have sowed for decades now. We have such a vast uneducated population that this coronavirus is almost more like a horrifying culling of the uneducated than anything el…

Can we call it education though or is it an anti-intellectual spirit or a disdain for elitism and the idea of experts? Or perhaps mistrust of authority and experts? It would seem like perhaps an uneducated but highly communal/cooperative/respectful-of-authority society would have better outcomes than one with well educated individuals who have a culture of disregard for institutional science or the idea of technocrat…

> Can we call it education though or is it an anti-intellectual spirit or a disdain for elitism and the idea of experts? Or perhaps mistrust of authority and experts?

I'm sure poor education accounts for a lot of it, but it can't be the only factor - even here on HN (where I'd assume most posters are well educated) there are people claiming COVID is a non issue and/or claiming masks are dangerous.

Another example are countries other than the US, such as the UK. In the beginning there were plenty doubters (hardly surprising when you've got arguably the most powerful idiot in the world claiming it's a hoax), but I see/hear very little of that these days.

It could be a mistrust of authority, but a lot of people in the US seem quite happy to trust authority - as long as it's the "right" authority.

For example, in the USA, you have Trump telling the most outrageous lies on a near-hourly basis, and millions believe him. On a similar vein you have ludicrous conspiracy theories like qanon, and even just plain conspiracies (without the "theory"!) about the Clinton's eating babies! As I European, I might suppose that a lot of people in the US are batshit-insane, but there has to be a reason for all that lunacy.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#224

Post by eddiecalzone »

entropea wrote: post #158
GregarianChild wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The country dealing better than any other with Covid has been Taiwan. No lockdown and > 200 days without new Covid case [1] see e.g. [2] for how they did it. It probably helped having had an epidemiologist as vice-president [3]. Russia is winning. Why did you have to end an otherwise insightful post with a many-times debunked conspiracy theory? May I recommend removing the last paragraph? [1] https://www.theguardian.…

>Why did you have to end an otherwise insightful post with a many-timed debunked conspiracy theory? I believe they're making the extraordinary claim that Russia is solely responsible for Americans not believing in mask wearing, as if Russia is in total control of the most wealthy & strong country in the history of the planet. Americans love a bogeyman to distract from the reality of a completely politically split cou…

_Solely_ responsible? No, of course not.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=russian+covid+disinformatio...

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#225

Post by Diederich »

Pinguinsan wrote: post #171
Diederich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries with dense populations, nearly universal mask wear, and also only minimally 'locked down' have very low Covid19 rates. Examples include Japan, South Korea and China. In my mind, the above facts are really all that's necessary: dense population + minimal lock down + universal mask wear == low Covid19 rates. There are many other good reasons as well.

Indiana has had a mask mandate since May. Our compliance has been great >95%, yet our cases are skyrocketing.

Ouch: https://mackuba.eu/corona/#indiana_united_states.daily?trend...

I appreciate the contrary feedback.

Do you have a link to the high mask compliance in Indiana handy? I've honestly looked for this kind of data and haven't been able to find it, and so assumed fairly poor (US-wide at least) mask wear based on anecdotes.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#226

Post by ed25519FUUU »

I have three small children who have not been sick ONCE since the lockdowns started. They barely have seen another child, let alone played with them in close proximity. Do you think this is good news? No, it actually puts them at much higher risk of childhood leukemia and that scares me much more than them getting covid 19[1].

Articles like this strike me as propaganda. You can believe that covid 19 is real and covid 19 is deadly but still be against lock downs, despite what the propaganda would have you believe. Our actions have consequences. There's no free lunch here.

1. https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/child-leukaemia-linked-reduce...

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#227

Post by Impashin »

CerealFounder wrote: post #212
Impashin wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the state has the power and push to get people to do it > this is why we need Biden in office You know Biden is running for national office, right? Not state government?

Im not sure why this is downvoted, especially on a site like HN. If you had a CEO that was anti tracking CAC and just said, doing marketing is enough. The corporate culture of employees would drift toward not tracking CAC (cost of acquisition), even though none of the employees are obligated to buy into that. The thing that is lost on the national vs state debate is that the presidents role in a our state powered rep…

In America, any power not explicitly granted to the federal government is left to the states. If Biden wins, this fact does not change, and he cannot enforce any policy regarding masks.

"Marketing" from the President is irrelevant here as demonstrated by coding123's comment:

> even the republican counties are under a mask order

> Grocery stores even are employing someone to just stand there and either hand a cheapy surg. mask or tell them to put one on.

If a state or company wants to enforce mask wearing, they can, and they do.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#228

Post by phobosanomaly »

Claudus wrote: post #151
ashtonbaker wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To choose not to wear a mask is not like your other examples, because it increases not only the risk to yourself, but to those around you. I don't necessarily think your posts should be getting flagged, but you seem to be arguing in bad faith.

I would say several of those examples actually do increase increase risk to others, second hand smoke, being incapacitated by drugs or alcohol can often put others at risk for a number of reasons, etc. Furthermore, I would think that other behaviors, like having an unhealthy diet or not getting enough exercise put an increased burden on society which is borne by others, even if they are not put at risk.

A casual encounter with secondhand smoke has an exceedingly small likelihood of causing a spontaneous mutation resulting in lung cancer.

A casual encounter with a SARS-CoV-2 infected individual coughing on you without a mask can easily land someone in the ICU.

Being incapacitated by drugs and alcohol are permissible in certain situations (being in your own home), not in others (driving on the freeway).

In a similar fashion, not wearing a mask is permissible in some situations (being in your own home), not in others (standing six inches behind me in line at the grocery store).

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#229

Post by rusk »

wil421 wrote: post #217
enumjorge wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how these healthcare workers do it. Why would I put my physical and mental health in danger to save people who are that selfish? I suspect many of them need the job. But those who do it out of a sense of duty are better people than I am I guess.

I’m shocked that people who’s job it is to save sick people actually have to save sick people. These people took an oath to help people. You can’t pick and choose who you help based on intelligence or even mental illness. It’s also shocking firefighters have to run into fires. /s

Actually - nurse in OP has quit. That’s one less person.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#230

Post by zero_deg_kevin »

mike_h wrote: post #157

Covid is turning out to be a disease of culture. The same virus hit the East and the West. The East got through it, the West is on its knees.

I’d call it a disease of experience, first and foremost.

The US missed the worst of SARS-Cov1 and MERS, which were catastrophic in some parts of the world. East-Asian Democratic countries had public debates about what are and are not reasonable public health measures. They passed enabling laws, built public health infrastructure, and established cutting edge novel virus surveillance programs.

The US did not. We were creating homeland security departments and starting stupid trillion dollar wars.

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