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Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

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Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#151
post #3

The article says that Apple isn't making full use of the 5nm process node, and blames lack of SRAM scaling for it (presumably due to the large amount of L3 cache). Is this a problem that all processors are about to hit, or is this going to be overcome once process engineers are more familiar with 5nm?

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a story from a site that focuses on fabrication technology and the semiconductor market place. The topic is device density. This is of interest, even if it doesn't interest you.

I appreciate that it's of interest to some people. So is the node figure you denigrated in your original post, though.

Doubtless. Angelic visitation is interesting to some people. Those and "node" figures have about the same value and credibility.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they specifically opt out, almost all iOS apps will be available on Apple Silicon macs at launch.

It will probably run, but I wonder if the UI will be usable on macOS?

Some iOS and Android games support keyboard/mouse I think. You can also potentially map mouse movement to joystick movement for relative games like shooters. There are people who play pubg mobile on desktop with BlueShift or whatever already. Barring that maybe there will be a market for apps that make playing iOS games with keyboard and mouse easier.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#154
post #138

As someone with an 8 year old MacBook Pro that isn’t all that much slower than my 2019 16”.... I am so glad Apple is still pushing the envelope. Back in the old days we used to get a doubling of performance every year or two. Then Intel got into trouble and has been producing the same chips for what 4-5 years? Essentially just minor changes. It’s not really Apple’s fault that the rest of the industry is lagging so ba…

My 2013 high end 15" MBP gets pretty hot when I'm watching 1080p or higher videos. Chrome+YouTube is even worse, it even drops frames. Compiling Swift is even worse than that. I have a work-provided 16" MBP that does all these things effortlessly.

Another consideration when making this kind of a comparison between an older laptop and a newer one is how much dust or debris are in each of them. If it’s an unequal amount, that’ll skew the spec comparison.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#155
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2013 high end 15" MBP gets pretty hot when I'm watching 1080p or higher videos. Chrome+YouTube is even worse, it even drops frames. Compiling Swift is even worse than that. I have a work-provided 16" MBP that does all these things effortlessly.

Are they using the same amount of hardware acceleration? If one has support for VP9 and one doesn't, then most of that is not because the cores changed in performance, it's because the video decoder got rearranged.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#156
post #138

As someone with an 8 year old MacBook Pro that isn’t all that much slower than my 2019 16”.... I am so glad Apple is still pushing the envelope. Back in the old days we used to get a doubling of performance every year or two. Then Intel got into trouble and has been producing the same chips for what 4-5 years? Essentially just minor changes. It’s not really Apple’s fault that the rest of the industry is lagging so ba…

My 2013 high end 15" MBP gets pretty hot when I'm watching 1080p or higher videos. Chrome+YouTube is even worse, it even drops frames. Compiling Swift is even worse than that. I have a work-provided 16" MBP that does all these things effortlessly.

I don’t use Chrome much. Safari runs YouTube perfectly fine, even while running benchmarks for a dev project I work on at home.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#157
post #137

As someone with an 8 year old MacBook Pro that isn’t all that much slower than my 2019 16”.... I am so glad Apple is still pushing the envelope. Back in the old days we used to get a doubling of performance every year or two. Then Intel got into trouble and has been producing the same chips for what 4-5 years? Essentially just minor changes. It’s not really Apple’s fault that the rest of the industry is lagging so ba…

Blaming Intel for the end to frequency scaling is overblown. The reality is that the entire field started to hit limitations imposed by physics on the current silicon trajectory. While transistors kept (and keep) getting smaller, it's diminishing returns squeezing clockspeed and single-core performance out of it. Instead, everything has been going into scaling horizontally with more cores and more cache.

The A14 scores 50% higher single core performance in geekbench compared to the i7 in my 16”MacBook Pro from 2019.

Also the current gen high end laptop CPUs from Intel are still 14nm. Which they introduced in 2015 with broadwell [1]. Others have shown that’s it’s very possible to scale beyond 14nm, so there is good reason to blame Intel here!

1. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/87719/i...

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#158
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't have an exclusive on 5 nm; it's also being used by Kirin 9000, Snapdragon 875, some Exynos, and a future Dimensity SoC.

I'm not sure how to square that claim with this sort of article: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/315186-apple-books-tsm...

The article is obviously wrong.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#159
post #91

Isn't this mostly TSMC's achievement? Can't their other clients reach the same density?

Yes and no. TSMC's process node gives some hard upper limit to what can be built, but whether you can make your design that compact is an open question.

One consideration is that while we think of each transistor as individual and isolated, in reality they are simply wells of n and p type silicon with some oxides and metal thrown in. Because of this we can get unwanted parasitic components and latches. A BJT transistor for example is just a pattern of three silicon types, so it is somewhat inevitable that these will occur, whether they cause issues, and to what extent depends on the design.

Packing everything as tight as possible gives noise concerns, thermal concerns, signal integrity issues ect.

This is not to devalue the achievement of TSMC, but to state that design work is still a work as well.

[1] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/145696

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#160

I found this to be a pretty confusing article. I get that they are analyzing the new node, which is great, but the editorializing seems a bit premature to me. I also don't think the author understood the TMSC presentation. TMSC clearly said that is used a "model" of a typical SOC of 60% logic, 30% SRAM, and 10% analog. Then they said that for each category of thing, you could expect 1.8x, 1.35x, and 1.2x of shrink. I…

Was I the only one disappointed in the decreasing die size? In our solid state past, it was about cramming more in there. All this cost-cutting leaving gaps... it wouldn’t pass the Jobs’ fish tank test.
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