Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 363 posts

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#301

Post by romanoderoma »

pelasaco wrote: post #295
romanoderoma wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Italy's current gun control laws date to the fascist period, notably the public safety act of 1931. 9 years after Fascism raised to power and abolished democracy in Italy. BTW you are not reading it well, what the Royal Decree No. 773 of 1931 established was that production of arms had to be licensed by the regime and that armed military parade were abolished UNLESS EXPLICITLY AUTHORIZED Guess who gave the authoriz…

right, so again, no comparison with Brazil, where the Pandemic hasn't eroded the democracy. There the Senate rejected the decree from Bolsonaro: https://www.france24.com/en/20190625-brazils-bolsonaro-revok...

It's Bolsonaro that eroded democracy in Brazil

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#302

Post by romanoderoma »

inops wrote: post #297
romanoderoma wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy literally said "I was in denial" I don't know what more I can say... If you think it's not bad for you, you also think it's not bad for others But maybe Johnson says things Johnson doesn't agree with.

Thinking you wouldn't be badly affected (and by Johnson's demographic, statistically it was likely he wouldn't have been), doesn't mean you think it doesn't affect others badly. I'm in my twenties and fit, and going by the vast majority of cases that means I'll have very mild symptoms. That doesn't prevent me being considerate how badly it affects others. You're also completely ignoring the context that at that point…

I'm sorry I'm in my fourties, still functioning and while in Italy, France and Spain the virus was causing havoc, Downing street was still taking time to prepare an "adequate response" trying to "find a balance to not take Draconian measures"

We've all seen the consequences of their choices

At one point they also talked about "letting the virus spread through the entire population and take it on the chin"

Either Johnson believed it or not, he said it and people reacted to it.

Was it a communication problem?

Maybe

Was it a grave mistake

Yes, it was

I'm not ignoring anything BTW, I stayed home 94 consecutive days in Italy, so please don't try to teach me what it looks like to take responsibility for the sake of your community.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#303

Post by whimsicalism »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #290
whimsicalism wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bolsanaro He is much more than just "right wing." He routinely praises the junta and says that their mistake was not killing enough leftists. That is not normal.

There is nothing wrong with a Junta as a form of government. Often times military governments are required to transition to a democratic one. I mean half of south america basically had them. They are effective forms of government required to retain order and stability so that democracy can ensue. The reason we don't see them be successful in african countries because they are often very poor, have immense cultural is…

> required to retain order and stability

There've been numerous transitions to democracy that have occurred without juntas. Your dog-whistling about cultural issues in Africa ignores the failure of juntas in places as diverse as Greece, Burma, and Egypt.

Ultimately though, the merits of juntas in general are not relevant. Do you agree with Bolsonaro that Brazil would have been better off if the military had disappeared more leftists? Do you think that is a reasonable stance for a head of state to hold?

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#304

Post by jjeaff »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #284
starfallg wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this is exactly the mindset that I'd characterize as an erosion of "respect for human rights". Google "positive rights". It is widely accepted that there are some things we are obliged to do. The base state of our existence is not to do nothing. You're trying portray what is in effect a public health measure into something sinister and I don't think it's working. I stand by my assertion that the original point…

What I'm trying to portray is that a lot of people think that Covid-19 is more important than most human rights, and nearly any restriction for nearly any duration is acceptable if it'll slow the spread. I think it's entirely fair to call that an "erosion of respect for human rights", and the source article describes many examples of how that can go wrong. As long as Ugandans share the attitude that controlling the s…

I don't see how any politicians are getting much out of lockdowns right now. Especially since polling places are still open and most people can vote by mail.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#305

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jjeaff wrote: post #304
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm trying to portray is that a lot of people think that Covid-19 is more important than most human rights, and nearly any restriction for nearly any duration is acceptable if it'll slow the spread. I think it's entirely fair to call that an "erosion of respect for human rights", and the source article describes many examples of how that can go wrong. As long as Ugandans share the attitude that controlling the s…

I don't see how any politicians are getting much out of lockdowns right now. Especially since polling places are still open and most people can vote by mail.

Again, I'd really suggest reading the source article in more detail, because it lists quite a few descriptions of politicians getting political advantage out of lockdowns.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#306

Post by jjeaff »

babesh wrote: post #203
selfmodruntime wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a take against all laws if you prop it up a bit more. It doesn‘t make sense. The people enacting these laws are democratically elected. „Common sense“ in this case is not arbitrary. It is the culmination of the „common senses“ if all politicians that were elected by their citizens. This is not undemocratic, it is democracy in its purest form. At some point in dire situations, as a government, you have to save…

That isn't direct democracy. That is a republican form of government. Whenever you have representatives instead of citizens governing themselves, you can have situations where the government saves the citizenry from themselves but also situations where the representatives exploit the government for themselves. Both cases have happened throughout history and are happening with the coronavirus. In the US, Fauci was ini…

Fair enough on most of those points, but I wouldn't blame democrats on the slow response. It just so happens that coastal urban centers are blue and were hit earlier and harder than anyone else.

The gravest political failures in regards to the pandemic have been the administration and a few of its most ardent political supporters. (Many republican governors have acted in good faith to protect their state). And that failure was not so much a failure to act soon enough, but a failure to listen to medical and scientific leadership and a propensity to meddle in the public health structure for political reasons.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#307

Post by starfallg »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #298
starfallg wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion pieces? The first link is a study that measured the amount of droplets that each mask type blocks using optical equipment.

You had one semi-legit study amongst all 10 or so links! The rest were editorial articles or blog articles! ONE! Talk about disinformation. Too bad it's a pointless study. Everyone knows masks stop droplets. But do masks stop Covid at a community level... given the fact that one is applying a plague vector directly to one's respiratory tract for a virus that stays on surfaces for days? Sweden and Norway had no mask m…

If you actually looked at each of the other links, you'd noticed that they were all valid.

I just picked the first one as an example of how seriously we should take your words at.

Now you start going on a tangent with meta-analysis of statistical data, comparing Sweden with America with no appreciation of the difference in the culture, lifestyle and handling of the coronavirus and then attribute their relatively good performance just to the lack of a mask mandate?

Give me a break, man.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#308

Post by throwmeaway_pls »

sanp wrote: post #217
mrkramer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe in information that Chinese communist party is providing. A totalitarian regime with mass violation of human rights?! I love China and Chinese people but people suffer a lot under the rule of CCP. They are faking their financial data and they are faking their COVID data as well.

OK, don't trust the numbers from China. Do you trust the numbers from South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, NZ?

I definitely do not believe NZ’s claim they eradicated COVID with “95% probability.” [1]

I do not trust that number at all.

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/world/australia/new-zeala...

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#309

Post by sethammons »

afpx wrote: post #283
sethammons wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, by definition, you are. We, as a society, have determined that certain freedoms are given up for certain benefits. Is it age discrimination to prevent having a driver’s license before age 16? Yup! Is a freedom taken from you by having a law preventing arson? Yep, and we mostly all agree that is good. The important part of a new rule or law is that we accept the trade offs. I’m not convinced we’ve reached cons…

Are you suggesting that any government rules on the individual are authoritarian? I think most would disagree with that.

Well. The definition of authoritarian includes the following:

> favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Is that not the definition? Government authority over individual freedom. Am I missing something?

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#310

Post by inops »

romanoderoma wrote: post #302
inops wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking you wouldn't be badly affected (and by Johnson's demographic, statistically it was likely he wouldn't have been), doesn't mean you think it doesn't affect others badly. I'm in my twenties and fit, and going by the vast majority of cases that means I'll have very mild symptoms. That doesn't prevent me being considerate how badly it affects others. You're also completely ignoring the context that at that point…

I'm sorry I'm in my fourties, still functioning and while in Italy, France and Spain the virus was causing havoc, Downing street was still taking time to prepare an "adequate response" trying to "find a balance to not take Draconian measures" We've all seen the consequences of their choices At one point they also talked about "letting the virus spread through the entire population and take it on the chin" Either John…

You may not be ignoring things with regard to Covid, but you're certainly ignoring context to misquote someone you don't like.
Post reply on HN