Live data from Hacker News

EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

politico.eu

261–270 of 352 posts

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#261
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DARPA literally gives grants to anyone with innovative/crazy/out of the ordinary ideas. It's the opposite in the EU, big companies get funding to develop something. Startups have no chance, unless someone knows someone.

Not necessarily, see https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/gettin... You can apply even as a single person, just need to know your ways through the bureaucracy, how to formulate your application, business plan, etc. Not easy, but doable. Or use one of the many services which support you in doing that. There seems to be a service industry around that nowadays, which wasn't the case when I did a few yea…

I really hope that works for already functioning small business, because I did write and apply everywhere I could.

I have a British friend who would work with me on this idea of an appliance reuse/recycling factory in NRW (because it's the closest state to the best suppliers from FR/DE/BE/NL). We've done the research, there's little competition and we could be profitable within a year.

To summarize the idea: take broken/used/returned electronics like washers, fridges, dishwashers, dryers, TVs, laptops, smartphones. Fix whatever can be fixed and sell as refurbished, break down the rest and sell for parts and scrap.

Seems simple? That's because it is, at least the basic idea. The hard parts are securing suppliers and selling everything for a profit. But we believe it can be done, because there's a huge market for refurbs, and especially spare parts.

There's a myriad of small repair shops all over EU that are starved for parts. I used to get them for cheap from my previous employer and sell them at a profit. I never had enough parts to satisfy the demand.

The UK has several big companies and a whole lot of small ones. Mainland EU is lacking, there's a few big recyclers in the Netherlands, everywhere else it's just small companies that don't seem to aim for scale.

I could publish the business plan if anyone's interested. At this point, I don't care if it's me or anyone else who does it. But it has to aim for scale, it's a must have for the environment.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#262
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Finland, the authorities reserved 6M to create a contact tracing app and all support systems. They ended up building it for 150k, with 250k more to operate it until the end of next year. Half the population downloaded it in the first days and it works great. It's completely privacy-focused and the UX is great for both individuals as well as the government. Is the German tracking solution really 400 times as comple…

> They ended up building it for 150k, with 250k more to operate it until the end of next year. Do you have any source for that? If true that is indeed impressive, but I am sceptical, given that your claim that "Half the population downloaded it" seems to be extremely exaggerated ( https://qz.com/1898960/whats-behind-finlands-contact-tracing... ) One way in which the German app was clearly superior is that it was rele…

Costs, use Google Translate: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/koronavilkkuun-on-varatt...

Share of population that downloaded it - Your article only talk about the first 24 hours. See for instance this article that says 1.8 milloin a month and a half ago: https://mobiili.fi/2020/09/08/koronavilkun-lataukset-yli-18-...

That's beginning to be half of the relevant population in a country of 6 million, when you take out kids and people in old folks' homes.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#263
post #6

As a european, i still think those kind of measures are trying to cure the symptoms by throwing huge pile of cash, rather that fix the core issue : that the private sector in europe is currently unable to produce GAFA-sized companies in the IT sector. My intuition is that once again the money will be grabbed by existing big companies that proved unable to innovate, but are the best at capturing public fundings. EDIT…

The recent COVID-App is a prime example of that. SAP plus German Telekom, neither of which is known for innovation, grab a 60M plus deal to develop a single app. In Italy a startup took over the job for 1/50 of the price and with at least as good or better job. Is the above play a problem for Germany? No. Do you they even understand an problem? I don't think so.

That's a really bad example, because the cost of the pandemic alone for the German government was forecasted as 1500 billion EUR [1].

Any spending that would make the pandemic become a fraction less severe is probably a net win. So if you have to chose between 60m EUR offer and a 95% chance of success of all features and in time delivery and another offer of 10m EUR and 90%, what should you choose? Why be thrifty at this point?

My question is rather why didn't they went out to spend more? So many more things that could have been added: public places check-ins (e.g. When visiting restaurants), more interfaces for laboratory to upload data, manual meeting log, collaborations with other countries...

[1] https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2020-10/coronavirus-...

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#264

The cynic in me is reminded of something similar from about a decade ago, european search engine, and so on. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycos_Europe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Mohn I don't remember the amount of money anymore, but it was huge , and dead for me from the moment of announcement of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertelsmann involvement.

This at least looks like a hopeless initiative of German media company and Spanish telecom without EU money involved.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#265
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't need to create these companies. If Europe used this money to create the infrastructure for smaller companies to work together horizontally and vertically to form similar offerings they could end up with something better, at lower cost. This is a model that worked extremely well in Japan in the latter half of the 20ths century, and was mostly responsible for its economic miracle: https://en.wikipedia.or…

Nope. Big IT (which is highly creative stuff) cannot be built top-down, only bottom up. Europe is and will be an IT wasteland.

Living in the EU and working as a consultant for some time, I could not agree more. In 2020 when every major company and gov agency uses cloud computing there are still many companies in Germany who refuse to do so because of security. I mean nothing concrete or factual, just "because of security concerns". The same companies have weekly security breaches that they are not even aware of always, sometimes customers notify them. There is still a heavy management focus in the EU, the kind of the manager is always right, no matter what happens. I could go on and on but when I hear about 10B spent (wasted) on a giant EU cloud I always envision these smart managers sitting in a room and doing white boarding session without a single solitary clue what is going on outside in the word. It is going to be the most expensive shitshow in the history of the EU. Popcorn is ready.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#266

The cynic in me is reminded of something similar from about a decade ago, european search engine, and so on. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycos_Europe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Mohn I don't remember the amount of money anymore, but it was huge , and dead for me from the moment of announcement of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertelsmann involvement.

This at least looks like a hopeless initiative of German media company and Spanish telecom without EU money involved.

Nonono! There was EU money involved. It made headlines in the local print media at the times. Just couldn't find it all atm. And then Bertelsmann was in, and that was a big bummer.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies for the stupid question, as I feel like I’m missing something obvious: why is that? Is it the regulatory environment?

I think one of the reasons, other than legislation, is lack of motivation; it is more or less egalitarian and that promotes mediocrity, not innovation. In US you can become filthy rich relatively fast, not in Europe, so why bother? Just see the IT salaries in Europe vs. Silicon Valley, they are a lot lower, so really good and ambitious people move to SV, don't spend time in Europe.

because money is the only prime motivator in life?

Also, this egalitarianism and promoting of mediocracy you speak of makes no sense in regards to people who want to attain personal growth. Not to mention having a system like the US comes at a massive cost in regards to the wellbeing and welfare of the general population.

Innovating isn't just about money. Not to mention a ton of innovators exists in the EU, they are just not the same scale as amazon/google etc.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#268
post #155
post #6

As a european, i still think those kind of measures are trying to cure the symptoms by throwing huge pile of cash, rather that fix the core issue : that the private sector in europe is currently unable to produce GAFA-sized companies in the IT sector. My intuition is that once again the money will be grabbed by existing big companies that proved unable to innovate, but are the best at capturing public fundings. EDIT…

Even referring to them as "IT companies" shows how out of touch Europe is.

this might just be a language thing to be honest.

ICT/IT is a very broad term, and usually used for anything technological in my experience.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#269
post #18

BTW Hetzner is a top notch EU cloud with an excellent proposal to finally learn Linux and deploy whatever you want on their industrial grade networking and storage. Instead of feeding an exploding complexities and costs of AWS, Google and Alibaba. I hope they will come to other continents soon.

I highly recommend AGAINST Hetzner.

Tried to use it earlier this year. Opened an account to host a new project.

Went to login the next week to create the instances and launch the projects. Couldn't login because the Hetzner console was broken for 2 days. Yes you heard right, everything was broken and unusable for 2 days. Imagine the AWS console down for 2 days for comparison, that doesn't happen.

Few days later when the service was restored. I found out the account was banned. It seems they ban new accounts automatically because they're afraid of bitcoin miners or something. It's not uncommon among cloud providers to ask for an ID or something to verify the account, only problem, Hetzner banned the account but didn't ask for anything.

Couldn't raise a ticket to have the account unlocked because the only way to raise a ticket is to open the account and raise a ticket, that's not possible with the account locked.

Tried to contact support through the provided support email on their site. They never replied. Tried to contact again. They never replied.

At that point the project launch was 2 weeks late. Had to have horrific meetings to explain why everything was late with my reputation on the line, all the fault of Hetzner. Will never use again.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#270
post #257
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any industries in the EU function like keiretsu, and what you're describing certainly isn't it. It's not the same thing as "just using small companies for everything". It requires a set of small, interlocking companies, (many of which own pieces of each other and have very tight knit relationships) that form part of a greater supply chain. It requires trust and human relationships. The set of companies…

Almost every major banks has its own startup incubator project that functions as a type of lead investor that directs the mariage of its children into these incestual relationships. This tends to skew the market towards serving the needs of its host company instead of looking at a market as a hole. A bigger issue IMO, is that the EU can't grow business that grow a cloud business and instead thinks it can just will th…

Look what happened with PSD2, did we get a type of pan european payment api, no every bank just integrates its own "answer" to PDS2.
Post reply on HN