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EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

politico.eu

151–160 of 352 posts

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#151

you cannot "force" funding. if you lack behind the competition, you must embrace protectionism. China is successful in that sphere compared to India because they closed the market and developed sustainable and partially better alternatives to American products. Europe must so the same - tax and limit American products. Let the home market copy and adapt then innovate. This is THE ONLY way.

"Europe must so the same - tax and limit American products"

While this will certainly boost the local IT companies and its rather timid approach to innovation, it would be considered a major affront by the US. With so many pro-US Europeans (in the government and in the streets), this proposal will never pass.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty similar here in the US. What do you think the solution is? I don’t like the consolidation and regulatory capture I see everywhere.

I agree that the EU has too many regulations preventing innovation and high taxation preventing investment. However, I think the main reason is that "big tech" is a winner take all market. For example, look at Google, they are investing way more than $10 billion in their cloud and yet still can't make a dent in AWS, even Microsoft is still far away. Same thing with search (Microsoft invested billions in bing) or Offi…

[deleted]

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#153
Whenever I read about the EU's struggles to compete with american tech companies (also SAP vs Salesforce), I think of Steve Yegge's rant on AWS, quote:

> So one day Jeff Bezos issued a mandate. He's doing that all the time, of course, and people scramble like ants being pounded with a rubber mallet whenever it happens. But on one occasion -- back around 2002 I think, plus or minus a year -- he issued a mandate that was so out there, so huge and eye-bulgingly ponderous, that it made all of his other mandates look like unsolicited peer bonuses.

> His Big Mandate went something along these lines:

> All teams will henceforth expose their data and functionality through service interfaces.

> Teams must communicate with each other through these interfaces.

> There will be no other form of interprocess communication allowed: no direct linking, no direct reads of another team's data store, no shared-memory model, no back-doors whatsoever. The only communication allowed is via service interface calls over the network.

> It doesn't matter what technology they use. HTTP, Corba, Pubsub, custom protocols -- doesn't matter. Bezos doesn't care.

> All service interfaces, without exception, must be designed from the ground up to be externalizable. That is to say, the team must plan and design to be able to expose the interface to developers in the outside world. No exceptions.

> Anyone who doesn't do this will be fired.

Emphasis mine. Good luck trying that in europe. Full rant: https://gist.github.com/chitchcock/1281611

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#154
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hetzner doesn't compete with AWS, Azure or Google Cloud. They compete primarily with companies like DigitalOcean, Linode, Vultr, OVH, Scaleway and traditional co-location and dedicated hosts. Look at the software offerings from Hetzner, they're barely existent. AWS and Hetzner are very clearly not in the same business. AWS makes its money primarily off of software services, Hetzner makes money primarily off of primit…

> Hetzner doesn't compete with AWS, Azure or Google Cloud. This assertion makes no sense at all. I mean, if you're in the business of getting an online business up and running, it seems to me that both do provide the infrastructure that allows you to achieve your goals. Arguably, AWS and GCP have more data centers spread throughout the world, but beyond unicorn-scale companies you'd be hard pressed to find any busine…

They also likely have 90% of income from 10% of clients, like any other sufficiently large business, while all others are just a cannon fodder in IT unicorn media echo chamber.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#155
post #6

As a european, i still think those kind of measures are trying to cure the symptoms by throwing huge pile of cash, rather that fix the core issue : that the private sector in europe is currently unable to produce GAFA-sized companies in the IT sector. My intuition is that once again the money will be grabbed by existing big companies that proved unable to innovate, but are the best at capturing public fundings. EDIT…

Even referring to them as "IT companies" shows how out of touch Europe is.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#156
post #10

This smells a bit Soviet. Instead of allowing small businesses to breathe more freely, take more risk and grow to US size companies (in 3x larger internal market!) they try to build a top down copy using an army of grant and procurement funds eaters.. despicable.

Let's not be naive here - US comes to EU to buy tech companies with cheap cash...

EU should simply make the conditions of selling to US to be less favorable than growing it in EU. Heavy taxation on these aggressive takeovers, and tax benefits to continue to do business in EU, would be a great incentive.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#157
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s like 600 engineer years of time in the US. It's a lot less than that in terms of total personnel costs ($100K is a modest salary-only for a software engineer, it's extremely low as a full cost of employment.)

Well, it’s pretty close to my salary. But I work in government.

> Well, it’s pretty close to my salary. But I work in government.

Sure. But it's probably nowhere close to your salary + benefits + overhead cost to your employer.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#158

Ridiculous. You just can't buy innovation. You have to set up the right environment for it

>You just can't buy innovation. You have to set up the right environment for it

When US companies come to EU to buy companies, they are literally buying innovation.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#159
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it’s pretty close to my salary. But I work in government.

> Well, it’s pretty close to my salary. But I work in government. Sure. But it's probably nowhere close to your salary + benefits + overhead cost to your employer.

My benefits are lousy but the contractor I work for probably charges my employer, yes. 300 engineer years would still be quite a lot too.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#160
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are comparing costs of bakery which made an apple pie with the price of apple. 60M budget included much more than just an app, which is basically a frontend to a sophisticated government operation. If you want to make a point about inefficiency of German corporations, find the right figures first. Upd: I previously wrote, that Italian app shares the source code with German one, which was probably not correct. In…

60mm is a preposterous amount of money for building almost any application. That’s like 600 engineer years of time in the US.

The app development itself cost only 4 Million. The rest is the projected total cost through 2021 including the server infrastructure and especially the call center support, which takes about 2000 calls a day.
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