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EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

politico.eu

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Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#141

Post by barumi »

the_duke wrote: post #41
juskrey wrote: post #18

BTW Hetzner is a top notch EU cloud with an excellent proposal to finally learn Linux and deploy whatever you want on their industrial grade networking and storage. Instead of feeding an exploding complexities and costs of AWS, Google and Alibaba. I hope they will come to other continents soon.

I recently tried out Hetzner Cloud, after using their dedicated servers for years, and have come away positively surprised. It works well, and the pricing is very appealing. But it's not even remotely in the same league as AWS/GC/Azure. All you get is DNS, private networks, load balancers VMs and storage volumes. That's it. Sure, you can self-host Kubernetes, and they even have a CSI driver for mounting volumes and a…

> It works well, and the pricing is very appealing. But it's not even remotely in the same league as AWS/GC/Azure.

IMHO Hetzner is far above AWS/GC/Azure in price and simplicity.

The only drawback I see in Hetzner is that they don't have a lot of data centers with a relevant geographic dispersion, but that's only relevant for a Unicorn-level scale, or applications that require TP99.99 latency in the lower-end of the double-digit scale uniformly throughout the globe.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#142

Post by ClumsyPilot »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #46
NeoFeznet wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies for the stupid question, as I feel like I’m missing something obvious: why is that? Is it the regulatory environment?

Would investors want to risk investing in a anti-tech part of the world who will blame them for everything? The EU is populist in trying to blame tech companies for all of society's ills.

Agreed, its nicer doing business in a country where you can fraudulently cause global economic meltdown and go on unscathed.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#143

Post by solarkraft »

petre wrote: post #65
juskrey wrote: post #18

BTW Hetzner is a top notch EU cloud with an excellent proposal to finally learn Linux and deploy whatever you want on their industrial grade networking and storage. Instead of feeding an exploding complexities and costs of AWS, Google and Alibaba. I hope they will come to other continents soon.

Scaleway and OVH are also great if you have clients or audience in the EU. Hetzner is just a reseller of others' infra but it's also nice. Kind of annoying how they ask for your ID and issue randomly generated login names, but the platform is good.

> Hetzner is just a reseller of others' infra

Could you elaborate on this? Whose infra are they selling? Could I get it directly from them?

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#144

Post by barumi »

ArmandGrillet wrote: post #71
juskrey wrote: post #18

BTW Hetzner is a top notch EU cloud with an excellent proposal to finally learn Linux and deploy whatever you want on their industrial grade networking and storage. Instead of feeding an exploding complexities and costs of AWS, Google and Alibaba. I hope they will come to other continents soon.

Hetzner user here, it's still very barebone compared to US cloud providers (but amazing pricing). No IAM, no EKS, it's mainly a VPS provider just like OVH. Scaleway looked closer to an AWS competitor but I haven't used it enough to know how good it is.

> Scaleway looked closer to an AWS competitor but I haven't used it enough to know how good it is.

I've tried out Scaleway a while ago , and unfortunately they double-charged my CC just because. I'm not sure how widespread is that behavior, but to me it was enough to remain a OVH/Hetzner client.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#145

Post by ClumsyPilot »

the_duke wrote: post #41
juskrey wrote: post #18

BTW Hetzner is a top notch EU cloud with an excellent proposal to finally learn Linux and deploy whatever you want on their industrial grade networking and storage. Instead of feeding an exploding complexities and costs of AWS, Google and Alibaba. I hope they will come to other continents soon.

I recently tried out Hetzner Cloud, after using their dedicated servers for years, and have come away positively surprised. It works well, and the pricing is very appealing. But it's not even remotely in the same league as AWS/GC/Azure. All you get is DNS, private networks, load balancers VMs and storage volumes. That's it. Sure, you can self-host Kubernetes, and they even have a CSI driver for mounting volumes and a…

Well, essentually Herzer is missing PAAS offerings that most modern devs can't live without, especially managed databases.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#147

Post by jolux »

dragonwriter wrote: post #129
jolux wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60mm is a preposterous amount of money for building almost any application. That’s like 600 engineer years of time in the US.

> That’s like 600 engineer years of time in the US. It's a lot less than that in terms of total personnel costs ($100K is a modest salary-only for a software engineer, it's extremely low as a full cost of employment.)

Well, it’s pretty close to my salary. But I work in government.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#148

Post by nemothekid »

TMWNN wrote: post #72
88840-8855 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. i do want that. i do not like American products at all. i would love to see alternatives that actually work and are competitive.

>i do not like American products at all. Why? No doubt you'd be the first to howl should an American say "I do not like European (tech) products at all". (Well, if there were any to dislike.) >i would love to see alternatives that actually work and are competitive. Why not ask for the moon and the stars while you're at it? You make it sound like all that is needed to develop (as tachyonbeam pointed out) European equi…

>* You make it sound like all that is needed to develop (as tachyonbeam pointed out) European equivalents to "Google, Duckduckgo, YouTube, Uber, Facebook, Dropbox, Amazon, Netflix, etc" is to shut down access from anywhere in Europe to and from these companies.*

This isn’t far fetched - it’s a well understood result of Chinas Great Firewall. With American companies banned in China, Chinese companies were free to copy American firms and capture the value of the Chinese market. Protectionism has work, and even India is considering it

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#149

Post by barumi »

adventured wrote: post #48
juskrey wrote: post #18

BTW Hetzner is a top notch EU cloud with an excellent proposal to finally learn Linux and deploy whatever you want on their industrial grade networking and storage. Instead of feeding an exploding complexities and costs of AWS, Google and Alibaba. I hope they will come to other continents soon.

Hetzner doesn't compete with AWS, Azure or Google Cloud. They compete primarily with companies like DigitalOcean, Linode, Vultr, OVH, Scaleway and traditional co-location and dedicated hosts. Look at the software offerings from Hetzner, they're barely existent. AWS and Hetzner are very clearly not in the same business. AWS makes its money primarily off of software services, Hetzner makes money primarily off of primit…

> Hetzner doesn't compete with AWS, Azure or Google Cloud.

This assertion makes no sense at all. I mean, if you're in the business of getting an online business up and running, it seems to me that both do provide the infrastructure that allows you to achieve your goals.

Arguably, AWS and GCP have more data centers spread throughout the world, but beyond unicorn-scale companies you'd be hard pressed to find any business that does need that sort of infrastructure. Yet, when you're at that scale you're far better off running your own infrastructure, both in terms of cost but also reliability.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#150

Post by barry-cotter »

Vinnl wrote: post #73
worldmerge wrote: post #42

Whenever I think of the EU I can't think of a single tech giant from there, countries that come to mind for me are the US, China, Japan and Taiwan. The only things I know about the EU when it comes to tech is it trying to push massive global regulations around tech. For reference I'm a 23 year old from the US. Nothing I have is made in Europe and I don't deal with any EU companies. Even my bike computer was made by a…

Spotify, Booking.com, Adyen, Takeaway.com, ASML are a couple I'm aware of - with a bias to the country I happen to be from. Also note that the EU is not always trying to push for global regulations - it's trying to push for EU-wide regulations which, by virtue of being strictest and a superset of global regulations, often end up as global regulations.

Booking.com has been owned by a US company since 2005.
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