Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground • Hacker News Board

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#71

Post by bigwavedave » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

coding_unit_1 wrote: post #51

bigwavedave wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car wasn't disabled because it lost reception, it was disabled because of an anti-tampering device that activated when the owner tried to install a child car seat (admittedly, what they did to install a child seat that set off the tamper switch baffles me). It remained disabled because the remote support team couldn't fix it since the parking garage was underground and had no cell reception.

The posts on reddit said it went into some uber-lockdown because it also didn't have reception so even adding cell or wifi repeaters wouldn't have worked. My guess is this some serious anti-theft for when your very expensive car gets stuffed in a shipping container - it bricks itself until you present it physically at a dealer (at which point you'd hope it gets flagged as stolen).

For my own edification, would you mind linking these posts you're referencing? The only comments on the reddit thread that I can find that say anything like that admit they're speculating, as opposed to the actual post which says the only thing that cell reception has to do with this is that the remote team can't access it remotely without cell reception (which is a no-brainer).

This might be a more contrived example, but this is kind of like trying too many times to unlock your tablet (made from platinum) and tech support can't unlock it when you call them because your router died and your wifi is down.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#72

Post by gambiting » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #57

gambiting wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think preventing your car from being stolen is an extremely basic issue - it's a risk that exists at the back of your mind constantly when you drive an expensive vehicle, so yeah, I'm glad the car does this. The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal.

> The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal. No big deal when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're in a parking garage. Rather more of a life-threatening defect when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're driving through an unpopulated desert where there are no cell towers or other people.

Look, I don't disagree with you, it's a problem - but I can guarantee that more Ferrari customers are affected by someone trying to steal their car than there are Ferrari customers driving through an unpopulated desert with no phone signal(and trying to do roadside repair). It's just a question of probabilities, and the first issue seems more important to solve.

Besides, I think there's a certain fundamental misunderstanding here - the car disabled itself because it "thought" it was being stolen. It's no different than triggering a car alarm in any car made in the last 30 years - most systems will kill the ignition until you reset the alarm.

The difference here is that Ferrari can unblock the car remotely for you - but I'm certain it's also possible in-person with some kind of key/button input or some diagnostic device.

It's no different than what 1990s volkswagens used to do, if you removed the battery the radio would be locked until you entered a special pin code, but of course the dealership wouldn't give you the pincode, you had to take it to them and pay them some money. The only difference here is that Ferrari can now do this remotely(if you have signal).

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#73

Post by dehrmann » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

smitty1e wrote: post #22

aloukissas wrote: post #3

Analog cars uber alles :)

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

Some of this repeats what others have said; modern safety and efficiency requirements mean the car needs more electronics. When they fail, you're SOL, but modern cars are pretty reliable, making up for part of the desire for consumers to fix them.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#74

Post by jakemal » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #63

Wonder if there will be a market for gasoline-powdered, or at least non-network connected, cars in the future. This sort of scenario makes me want to never buy an electric car, ever.

What does this have to do with a car being electric?

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#75

Post by callamdelaney » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:54 PM UTC

danparsonson wrote: post #53

callamdelaney wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with gambiting. Yeah, it sucks, but just tow your car outside and turn it on again. These things exist for a reason. If it had really been stolen, and there was the work around of 'oh, there's no signal so we'll let the car start and drive off' - then a thief could permanently jam that signal, or remove the electronic device responsible for receiving that signal. E.g, it's not perfect but it is secure.

> ...just toe your car outside... Hehe I wouldn't normally pick up on typos but this a great one - "tow" your car outside, unless maybe you're planning to kick it out there :-)

Thanks, fixed!

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#76

Post by gambiting » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #69

rrdharan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd have to be kind of nuts (or filming a Top Gear episode, not mutually exclusive) to be driving a Ferrari through an unpopulated desert.

Maybe, but what do you say when they put the same anti-theft system in a Land Rover, or just the regular cars that the people who live or work in sparsely populated deserts drive?

>> people who live in sparsely populated deserts drive?

Well, by the very definition, there can't be that many people there - so unfortunately they will have to buy something else, or discuss it with their dealership before they purchase the car. When I got my current car(2020 Volvo XC60) the dealership did warn me that if I don't have signal many features in the vehicle won't be available(no idea if it would "brick" itself if I tried repairing it in the middle of a desert, but I'm not interested in finding out).

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#77

Post by pwinnski » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #63

Wonder if there will be a market for gasoline-powdered, or at least non-network connected, cars in the future. This sort of scenario makes me want to never buy an electric car, ever.

This is a gasoline-powered car we're talking about, so you've made quite a leap.

I drive an all-electric car with no remote connections at all, unlike this gas-powered Ferrari.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#78

Post by spaceisballer » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

PJDK wrote: post #12

Reading through it seems like people are misinterpreting this. By my reading the car has an anti-theft device that was triggered by the installation of seats. There is a remote system to override the anti-theft device, but that doesn't work because it requires mobile reception. It's kind of funny, but this doesn't really tell you anything about the dangers of "smart cars" or anything.

It is kind of funny that people never thought of that. For the 2020 Census there was a big push to have our interviewing app always connected. Thankfully we did a lot of pushing back, people who live in metro areas have no idea how bad cell coverage can be. And when we have to count the entire US you can’t always be connected. Just seems to me like they made that bad assumption.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#79

Post by lozaning » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #70

A lot of readers here, and on Reddit seem to be misunderstanding the situation. The way I understand it, this car was taken in by a garage for 'seat installation'. I presume this means after market seats. The car disabled itself during installation. The OP assumed due to an anti-temper device, but it could have been any failure mode. Most modern cars with airbags will have sensors in the seats to disable some of the…

>The fact that the manufacturer can remote into their cars, does not automatically mean that the car is vulnerable to remote hacking

If your car can connect to the internet it's vulnerable to hacking via the internet. My car, which is incapable of connecting to the internet suffers no such potential for abuse.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#80

Post by ericd » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:56 PM UTC

smitty1e wrote: post #22

aloukissas wrote: post #3

Analog cars uber alles :)

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

The other answer could be lack of scale. These aren’t artisan goods that someone can easily try offering on a whim, these magnificently complicated machines are only affordable because of economies of scale/mass manufacturing. You can probably find someone to custom build what you want, but it’s not going to be anywhere near cost competitive with a standard model. Maybe you can get close by using stock parts from other cars.

Or maybe this is a market opportunity, and you should set up a manufacturing line for stripped down jeep-like vehicles.

Probably won’t be road legal, though, because they’re horrifically unsafe in a collision compared to modern cars.