Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Abolish the Cash Bail System

arcdigital.media

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 288 posts

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#101

Post by [deleted] »

mmmBacon wrote: post #50
jennyyang wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conviction rate is very high, upwards of 85% in some states. So it's not like large swaths of completely innocent people are being held in jails. I'm okay with pre-trial incarceration as long as everyone gets treated equally. Since they aren't, I think non-cash bail is a good idea, with strict requirements to check in with an officer, etc. If they don't meet their appointments or break the terms of their bail, I'…

The US system is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. We should not be ok with denying a person’s freedom while they are presumed innocent. Additionally the conviction rate has nothing to do with actual guilt. Many people plea to get it over with. I did this myself in the early 90s shortly after turning 18. I was charged with class 3 misdemeanor disorderly conduct for skateboarding. My lawyer thought we could…

[deleted]

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#102

Post by daguava »

Reading a lot of these comments truly hurts, there is no reason for the amount of money you have to be tied to whether you are allowed out on bail at all. I was super happy to see this be proposed as a measure for the California Ballot and immediately gave it a yes - an assessment of danger and flight risk is a great way to start this foray into reform. Throwing down money disproportionately hurts the poor and underrepresented, keeping them in these demographics.

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#103

Post by justinclift »

bawolff wrote: post #51
rallison wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the downsides weren't so significant, then sure, the pro side makes sense. But the downsides are incredibly significant - that you have huge numbers of people who spend time in jail or spend money for a bail bond, who are indeed innocent, is a sign of a fundamentally broken system. > It should be relative to your ability to pay Sure, this would help, but I suspect it would still end up often unjustly impacting tho…

Fundamentally the idea of a surety doesn't work for the really poor. If you don't have anything to put up as collateral, you don't have anything to loose by skipping bail. The flip side of that, is if you are really poor you have less resources to use making your escape, so maybe the bail system is less needed. But just because the bail system doesn't work well for poor people doesn't mean its also broken for middle…

> If you don't have anything to put up as collateral, you don't have anything to loose by skipping bail.

That doesn't seem correct. Wouldn't that really only be the case for guilty people, whereas innocent people would turn up in order to be proven innocent - assuming (perhaps wrongly) that they'd win?

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#104

Post by kepler1 »

mulmen wrote: post #93
kepler1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...I would rather see 10 guilty people flee before their trial and escape justice, than see one innocent person get stuck in jail pre-trial because they couldn't cough up the cash for a bail bond, causing them to lose their job and ruin their life. This is why poor black neighborhoods are crime ridden and victimized. You would have the law abiding citizen of these poor areas subject to 10 criminals roaming the street…

> This is why poor black neighborhoods are crime ridden and victimized. Are you claiming this is unique to black neighborhoods? Why would there be a racial component to this issue at all? > Your own efforts to believe in racial justice by any means undermine the outcome itself. You appear to be the first person in this thread to invoke race.

[I don't think it's right that people are flagging my comment]

If you don't see that this problem is particularly unfair and concentrated in poor black neighborhoods, you are truly allowing your idealism blind you to reality.

For some reason maybe you don't want to talk about race, despite the entire matter being centered around "Black Lives Matter".

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#105

Post by itsananderson »

ponker wrote: post #61
creato wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Bail is in fact supposed to be a function of your financial status, and the severity of the crime. What do you suggest as an alternative to bail bonds? Maybe ankle monitors for those awaiting trial? I think maybe the thing that should most change is outlawing bail bondsmen. It seems like the…

Ankle monitors works for me, with cutting off the ankle monitor earning a one way ticket to remand. Seems like we have the technology to do away with cash bail.

When applied for house arrest, ankle monitors are pretty expensive, with the expense borne by the person being monitored https://www.propublica.org/article/digital-jail-how-electron...

Unless a different payment scheme were implemented for a cash bond alternative, poor defendants would still likely end up in jail due to inability to pay for their ankle monitors.

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#106

Post by [deleted] »

creato wrote: post #17
ketzo wrote: post #2

Absolutely. It’s one of the most cruel and predatory systems that I can imagine — regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Christ. Give me a break. It’s also one of those policies that I literally can’t force myself to imagine a “pro” argument for. > Today, three out of five people in U.S. jails have not been convicted of a crime. Th…

> regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Bail is in fact supposed to be a function of your financial status, and the severity of the crime. What do you suggest as an alternative to bail bonds? Maybe ankle monitors for those awaiting trial? I think maybe the thing that should most change is outlawing bail bondsmen. It seems like the…

[deleted]

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#107

Post by COVardsStayHome »

kepler1 wrote: post #89
kelnos wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather see 10 guilty people flee before their trial and escape justice, than see one innocent person get stuck in jail pre-trial because they couldn't cough up the cash for a bail bond, causing them to lose their job and ruin their life. Means testing flat-out doesn't work. There are plenty of people who get caught in the system who can afford exactly zero dollars for bail, and I find it damn near impossible…

...I would rather see 10 guilty people flee before their trial and escape justice, than see one innocent person get stuck in jail pre-trial because they couldn't cough up the cash for a bail bond, causing them to lose their job and ruin their life. This is why poor black neighborhoods are crime ridden and victimized. You would have the law abiding citizen of these poor areas subject to 10 criminals roaming the street…

What a fucking cunt we have here.

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#108

Post by twblalock »

matsemann wrote: post #86
kepler1 wrote: post #76

You know, systems were established for a reason . It's not like the cash bail system was some ridiculous fanciful notion that someone created to torture the poor. We have arrested people pay cash bail so that we have some forcing function to ensure that they don't flee. And maybe a little bit to provide people the incentive not to commit crime in the first place. I don't know why, but that seems to be considered disc…

> Maybe if people are experiencing hardship from being held in jail, they should try not to commit crimes? So you're just gonna assume everyone that's arrested is guilty even before the trial? You are also misrepresenting or misunderstanding dismantling of the police. It's not necessarily about using less resources in the neighborhoods, but about using them correctly. If someone is needing a welfare check, maybe send…

> You are also misrepresenting or misunderstanding dismantling of the police. It's not necessarily about using less resources in the neighborhoods, but about using them correctly.

How about this: if you don't want to dismantle something, then don't use the word dismantle. Perfectly good words already exist for what you suggest, such as reform.

If you say dismantle you should expect people to interpret it as its plain ordinary meaning: to take apart, to destroy, to get rid of, to make it not exist anymore.

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#109

Post by ponker »

itsananderson wrote: post #105
ponker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ankle monitors works for me, with cutting off the ankle monitor earning a one way ticket to remand. Seems like we have the technology to do away with cash bail.

When applied for house arrest, ankle monitors are pretty expensive, with the expense borne by the person being monitored https://www.propublica.org/article/digital-jail-how-electron... Unless a different payment scheme were implemented for a cash bond alternative, poor defendants would still likely end up in jail due to inability to pay for their ankle monitors.

Ankle monitors should be a government expense, except intentional damage.

Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System

#110

Post by tom-_- »

tyrust wrote: post #95
menage wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After SB10 was passed by the legislature, the opposition (mostly bail bond companies?) gathered enough signatures to force a "veto referendum", i.e. a referendum on whether SB10 should be adopted as the legislature had voted, or should be dropped. That referendum is Prop 25. Edit: Parent is right, the link is to a different issue.

Yeah, what does that have to do with the paper the parent linked?

Prop 25 upholds SB 10. This paper suggests improvements to SB10 based on potential biases in its design.
Post reply on HN