#BLM
Abolish the Cash Bail System
11–20 of 288 posts
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#12I am all for it. I think that the cash bail system is a crime on its own. the only thing that should determine whether this or that suspect should wait trial in jail should be potential risk to public.
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#13Absolutely. It’s one of the most cruel and predatory systems that I can imagine — regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Christ. Give me a break. It’s also one of those policies that I literally can’t force myself to imagine a “pro” argument for. > Today, three out of five people in U.S. jails have not been convicted of a crime. Th…
The conviction rate is very high, upwards of 85% in some states. So it's not like large swaths of completely innocent people are being held in jails. I'm okay with pre-trial incarceration as long as everyone gets treated equally. Since they aren't, I think non-cash bail is a good idea, with strict requirements to check in with an officer, etc. If they don't meet their appointments or break the terms of their bail, I'…
Not an expert, but I imagine the conviction rate is high because prosecutors make it the path-of-least resistance to freedom. Competent legal assistance is expensive, and building a defense is also expensive and time-consuming. So I wouldn't say that an 85% conviction rate implies anything about the innocence of pre-trial prisoners. Moreover, I think it is dangerous to do so, lest it be a circular argument: why did you arrest him? He was guilty. Why was he guilty? Because I arrested him.
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the only ‘pro’ arguments that can be made in a sensible manner is to discuss the amount of people not incarcerated who do not appear for court. It is not a great argument, but it is a factor to be considered. In theory, bail, via a bondsman, is an amount of money that will Ensure that the bail-bondsman will go track down the defendant in the event they do not appear for court as required. That said, I don’t th…
What? It looks like your proposing someone pay someone else to do a particular role. What does that have to do with cash bail? I'm confused.
The point of bail is to put the defendant (or someone close to them) on the hook to pay the bail if the defendant doesn't show up in court.
Bail bondsmen offer a different deal: pay us a fee (smaller than the bond), we'll pay your bail. If you don't show up to court, the bondsmen loses the bail bond unless they can go find the defendant and bring them into court.
I think maybe the thing that should most change in this system is that practice of bail bondsmen/bounty hunting is made illegal. That should lower bonds significantly, and maybe enable bail bonds to function more as they were originally intended.
I have no experience with any part of this, this is just my understanding.
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#15No. First figure out how to keep dangerous criminals off the street pre-trial. Then let’s talk. Cash bail is regressive and often unjust, I’m not willing to correct this injustice without a viable alternative to simply allowing dangerous people back onto the street hoping that they show up to trial and that they do not destroy while out. I believe our system has flaws that need correcting, but I do not advocate destr…
Abolishing cash bail doesn’t mean "no pretrial detention for anyone". People judged to be a flight risk or a threat to the community can still be held without bail.
Abolishing cash bail is about not unnecessarily imprisoning people who would be safe to release, but who are still held under the current system because they can't afford to pay the bail.
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
What? It looks like your proposing someone pay someone else to do a particular role. What does that have to do with cash bail? I'm confused.
The point of bail is to put the defendant (or someone close to them) on the hook to pay the bail if the defendant doesn't show up in court. Bail bondsmen offer a different deal: pay us a fee (smaller than the bond), we'll pay your bail. If you don't show up to court, the bondsmen loses the bail bond unless they can go find the defendant and bring them into court. I think maybe the thing that should most change in thi…
Ohhhh, I see now. Thank you.
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#17Absolutely. It’s one of the most cruel and predatory systems that I can imagine — regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Christ. Give me a break. It’s also one of those policies that I literally can’t force myself to imagine a “pro” argument for. > Today, three out of five people in U.S. jails have not been convicted of a crime. Th…
> regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status?
Bail is in fact supposed to be a function of your financial status, and the severity of the crime.
What do you suggest as an alternative to bail bonds? Maybe ankle monitors for those awaiting trial?
I think maybe the thing that should most change is outlawing bail bondsmen. It seems like they distort the market for bail bonds significantly and may be causing some/most of the problems with bail, and at the same time this system empowers private individuals with duties that should be the responsibility of the state (finding and detaining people who didn't show up to court).
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#18Absolutely. It’s one of the most cruel and predatory systems that I can imagine — regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Christ. Give me a break. It’s also one of those policies that I literally can’t force myself to imagine a “pro” argument for. > Today, three out of five people in U.S. jails have not been convicted of a crime. Th…
The conviction rate is very high, upwards of 85% in some states. So it's not like large swaths of completely innocent people are being held in jails. I'm okay with pre-trial incarceration as long as everyone gets treated equally. Since they aren't, I think non-cash bail is a good idea, with strict requirements to check in with an officer, etc. If they don't meet their appointments or break the terms of their bail, I'…
Conviction rate includes guilty verdicts as well as guilty and no contest pleas. Those pleas are heavily influenced by the use of cash bail as a pressure tactic to get plea acceptance. Something like 90% of cases don’t ever see a trial.
Your optimizing for a variable that doesn’t mean at all what you think it means
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the only ‘pro’ arguments that can be made in a sensible manner is to discuss the amount of people not incarcerated who do not appear for court. It is not a great argument, but it is a factor to be considered. In theory, bail, via a bondsman, is an amount of money that will Ensure that the bail-bondsman will go track down the defendant in the event they do not appear for court as required. That said, I don’t th…
What? It looks like your proposing someone pay someone else to do a particular role. What does that have to do with cash bail? I'm confused.
[deleted]
Re: Abolish the Cash Bail System
#20No. First figure out how to keep dangerous criminals off the street pre-trial. Then let’s talk. Cash bail is regressive and often unjust, I’m not willing to correct this injustice without a viable alternative to simply allowing dangerous people back onto the street hoping that they show up to trial and that they do not destroy while out. I believe our system has flaws that need correcting, but I do not advocate destr…
> I believe our system has flaws that need correcting, but I do not advocate destroying the system to fix them.
“It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.“ - Justice Blackstone
I don’t understand why and how we got so far away from the idea that state punishment is the last resort, instead making it the first. Especially in the States, we do so many things that, even in the moment we are doing them, seem needlessly cruel yet justify them as “but what happens if one bad person continues to be bad and we miss the chance to smack them hard??”