Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

iphoneincanada.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 634 posts

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#381

Post by tzs »

nickpp wrote: post #209

So it was fine when Apple banned Infowars but now it’s different? This is exactly what those free speech advocates meant when talking about slippery slopes: you either support free speech or censure. There is no middle ground. Disclaimer: I think Infowars is pure, evil sh*t.

So let's say I'm a book seller, offering books on a variety of topics.

Some particular country does not allow books promoting religions other than their official religion. What am I supposed to do? Refuse to sell books on pet care or calculus or gardening in that country because I can't sell books about Druidism?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#382

Post by qPM9l3XJrF »

throw0101a wrote: post #288
qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't see how this is different from Twitter taking down a tweet which doxxes someone. Would people object if Apple told Telegram they had to remove a channel that was being used by white supremacists to coordinate terrorist attacks? The answer to that question matters, because if users in this thread succeed in making iPhones less of a walled garden, terrorists will be able to use their iPhones to coordinate…

> […] terrorists will be able to use their iPhones to coordinate terror repeatedly on a large scale, and there won't be anything Apple can do about it. And? If they're using (say) Signal or even Messages, it's already end-to-end encrypted and there's nothing Apple can do about it. > Is that really the world you want to live in? You mean like they're able to use GPG/PGP, Tor browser, and Tails Linux distribution to po…

Moore’s Law of Mad Science: “Every eighteen months, the minimum IQ necessary to destroy the world drops by one point.”

I'm happy that GPG/PGP etc. are a bit difficult to use, because it makes the IQ threshold necessary to coordinate nastiness secretly a bit higher.

Remember how great the blogosphere was prior to the advent of social media? Social media made "blogging" a little more accessible and it became a cesspool. Speed bumps can be a very good thing.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#383

Post by qPM9l3XJrF »

mola wrote: post #282
qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't see how this is different from Twitter taking down a tweet which doxxes someone. Would people object if Apple told Telegram they had to remove a channel that was being used by white supremacists to coordinate terrorist attacks? The answer to that question matters, because if users in this thread succeed in making iPhones less of a walled garden, terrorists will be able to use their iPhones to coordinate…

Well yeah, white supremacists are violent racist. People protesting against election fraud, aren't. If your idea of stability is the opression of the unprivelidge, then you are part of the problem. This is exactly why corrupt government call protesters anarchists, so middle class people wouldn't mind opression as long as there's stability. While usually the actual destabilization and craziness comes from the people w…

Read my last paragraph. The point is that you can't jailbreak one without jailbreaking the other.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#384

Post by qPM9l3XJrF »

jwalgenbach wrote: post #339
qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't see how this is different from Twitter taking down a tweet which doxxes someone. Would people object if Apple told Telegram they had to remove a channel that was being used by white supremacists to coordinate terrorist attacks? The answer to that question matters, because if users in this thread succeed in making iPhones less of a walled garden, terrorists will be able to use their iPhones to coordinate…

This is a false equivalency. One is a group objecting to rigged elections and another is a group that advocates for violence against others based on ethnicity. Those are very different things, and it is necessary to differentiate between the two.

I didn't claim they were equivalent.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#385

Post by sofixa »

im3w1l wrote: post #312
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no middle ground. Pause this slippery slope argument for a second. The current situation in Belarus: - Protestors are being imprisoned by unidentified agents in unidentified vehicles - Protestors are being _tortured_ throughout nightly interrogations - Protest _organizers_ have been kidnapped overnight and hanged from trees to get the OMON's point across. This isn't a US politics disinformation twitter pin…

The reason people want guns and freedom of speech is because they anticipate these kinds of situations. With actual dictatorships and everything. Similar to poker, it rarely goes all the way to showdown. But the possibility of showdown still shapes everything.

Seems to work great in the US, where the nutjbobs with guns and "muh free speech" are at the forefront of fighting against democracy and defending the party and officials doing the most to harm it.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#386

Post by qPM9l3XJrF »

tripzilch wrote: post #341
_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

> So what do you do if you are Apple? Nothing because Apple has ZERO, no place meddling in this business. Just hear yourself, "it's against the TOS" versus people on the streets trying to save their own country from a stolen election and a dictator?? OF COURSE the TOS of a tech company is completely irrelevant in this situation. TOS aren't even laws, they were just created by a profit driven corporation for legal pro…

>Nothing because Apple has ZERO, no place meddling in this business.

Not meddling means enforcing its TOS in an evenhanded way. Otherwise it's playing favorites.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#387

Post by sofixa »

tripzilch wrote: post #329
oxymoran wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people say Apple fanboys like it’s an insult. Is there a legitimate, better option to apple? No because the smartphone market is dominated by google and apple. At least apple pretends to care about privacy. Yes, apple are obviously hypocrites. Still better than google. If there was another viable choice I would happily go with that.

Sorry but what's Google done that is worse than this? These are people trying to save their country, from rigged elections and an oppressive regime. That's what they use communication for, and Apple shutting this down, choosing the side of the party that stole the election through cheating and force. I'm not a big fan of Google (nor Apple), but I'm having a hard time thinking of something Google did that is so straig…

And even if Google did do the same kind of shit with Android, it has an open source base, and there are distributions ( LineageOS to name one) over which Google has no control whatsoever.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#388

Post by shadowgovt »

banachtarski wrote: post #310
torben-friis wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully buy this idea, because I've never seen an app become successfully widespread through side loading. The technical friction is just too high for non technical users. I agree that we need a solution to monopolistic app stores though.

This is somewhat circular reasoning though. Apple and Google have deliberately made it impossible or difficult to sideload to maximize profits.

There's nothing particularly difficult about side loading on Google. It's off by default because it's an excellent vector for malicious actors to compromise a user's phone. Users, in the average case, haven't gotten smarter since the days of trojans and malware running rampant under the Windows architecture.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#389

Post by toyg »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #299
dan-robertson wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it is telegram which the government ought to need to compel. Or they could make Apple remove the telegram app. But that hasn’t happened

> Or they could make Apple remove the telegram app. Which is effective primarily because there’s no (practical) way to sideload on iOS! This is why I’ve always seen the locked-down nature of the iPhone as a threat to free expression first and foremost. Apple is responsible for setting the system up this way.

I agree in principle.

In practice, this can be achieved today for a handful of apps with AltStore.io.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#390

Post by spacemanmatt »

BurningFrog wrote: post #261
_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

Griefing? Belarus is on the brink of civil war. Doxxing regime supporters can easily end up as a "murder todo list" if things heat up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Griefing

That's kiiiiiiinda the point
Post reply on HN