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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#231

Post by whyoh »

vetinari wrote: post #103
whyoh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one technical reason is that WhatsApp groups — unlike Telegram groups — use encryption. So Facebook doesn't know what goes on inside them.

That's just a theater. If anybody can join a group, there must be a way to distribute the keys to those who joined. Anybody can get a key then, including Whatsapp/Facebook.

Right, if the invite link is publicly available anyone can join.

But a Facebook employee would have to join the group and they wouldn't have access to older messages. It's not like with Telegram, where all the content, including old messages, is stored in plain text on the server.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#233

Post by y04nn »

ketamine__ wrote: post #166
echelon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

Tim Cook is not a good person. Source: The people he engages with as he attempts to increase Apple's market cap. https://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2018/04/07/6f86bd65-aefa-4a...

Context of this photo: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/04/08/saudi-prince-meet...

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#234

Post by dan-robertson »

_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

One issue is that public attitudes to doxxing vary between places. What is unacceptable in America may be considered more normal elsewhere.

In this specific situation there’s a pretty obvious power imbalance where the public do not wear masks and the authorities would be able to track them down and oppress them later (or just do what they currently do and grab them from the streets at the time). The threat of unmasking is one of the few things the people have to use against the authorities: when a policeman has his mask removed he will typically run away for fear of being identified. (The only other things they have are sheer numbers and the moral superiority of being basically peaceful against a violent government).

A similar argument about law enforcement safety was used by Apple to remove a map app in Hong Kong which showed people where large groups of police (and eg tear gas releases or which small coloured banners announcing illegal assemblies had been raised). The claim was that the app could be used to target individual policemen even though it only showed larger units and mainly helped people to get around the city without getting gassed by the police. Meanwhile the Chinese government were funding a site offering money for doxxing protestors but it wasn’t in the App Store so I guess it was ok.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#235

Post by qPM9l3XJrF »

_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

Yeah, I don't see how this is different from Twitter taking down a tweet which doxxes someone.

Would people object if Apple told Telegram they had to remove a channel that was being used by white supremacists to coordinate terrorist attacks?

The answer to that question matters, because if users in this thread succeed in making iPhones less of a walled garden, terrorists will be able to use their iPhones to coordinate terror repeatedly on a large scale, and there won't be anything Apple can do about it. Is that really the world you want to live in? Personally, 2020 has satiated my appetite for craziness, and I'm ready for a little stability.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#236

Post by smolder »

threeseed wrote: post #12
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #6

Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? Telegram is a platform for user-generated content and it seems odd for Apple to single-out those 3 channels/groups specifically - what about the hundreds of thousands of other objectionable groups on Telegram? And why Telegram in particular? Why doesn't Apple give the same ultimatum to Facebook to pressure them to block access to militant ethnonationalist gro…

Can you point me to similar Facebook/Whatsapp groups ? Because they are usually pretty aggressive about acting on inciteful content.

No, Facebook is not aggressive in moderating anything except their PR. It's full of bots, full of disinformation, and full of hate-filled groups. You have to be smart enough not to use it to be naive enough to believe they police any aspect of it adequately.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#237

Post by gigatexal »

notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

Apple fanboy here and I think this is not a good look for the company. Considering their stance on being stewards of privacy and all.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#239

Post by oefrha »

saagarjha wrote: post #57
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why Telegram in particular? It ended up as the main way Belarussian protesters organize themselves. TG is a huge target for their government and I would not be surprised if Apple is being pressured by them.

Apple painted this target on their own back when they decided they’d be the sole distributor of software for the platform.

It’s not like Indian/U.S. government didn’t ask Google to take down TikTok from the Play Store.

As long as they operate an app store, they will be a target. Just might not be the only target.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#240

Post by [deleted] »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #183
echelon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

Yes, don't worship any company or organisation, not Apple, not SpaceX, not Bell Labs, not the United States of America, none at all. Even if they do the right things now, future leadership may decide to do the opposite and lie about it, values may change, goals shift. Try to treat them as groups of strangers that change every few years, not as individuals with a personality that you somehow feel like you really reall…

[deleted]
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