Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

europe.autonews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 95 posts

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#41

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

mrkwse wrote: post #31
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I right in believing an EV has a lower carbon output per unit distance than an ICE vehicle even if charged by thermal coal power?

Possibly, the relatively new Polestar marque has published it's transparency report about lifetime emissions, and references 'Global' and 'European' power mixes along with 100% wind in it's sums about after how many miles it will have produced less CO2 overall (inc. production emissions) vs. a ICE equivalent. Polestar's figures for the 2 are (vs the XC40 on the same underlying platform): Global power mix: 112,000 km…

Thanks for the numbers.

I didn't realise the numbers were so high!

Many EVs will be carbon-better only once their second hand vehicles!

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#42

Post by Someone »

virgilp wrote: post #25
seibelj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know, but Norway has profited immensely from oil and gas through their sovereign wealth fund, which is also used as a model for how other countries should establish social safety nets. If Norway was truly sorry, they should liquidate all of their oil profits and use it to invest in research to make a carbon neutral future. As it stands they ruined the environment and now will profit off the backs of the rest…

I doubt Norway is "sorry". Also, they're barely on the 13h place... what does US do, at the policy level? https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/ [edit] For all those who scale with population: it doesn't really matter for production. Population matters for consumption, and emissions (if they were producing 5% of US CO2, it would really look bad for Norway; but they don't - per capita the emit ha…

I think you should somehow scale that by country size. For example, there are about 5½ million Norwegians. I think that, in production per capita, only smaller countries such as Kuwait and Qatar score higher.

Having said that, because of the law of large numbers, in any ranking scaled by size, the outliers typically are the smaller entities.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#43

Post by clouddrover »

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #26
gambiting wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that lev…

One thing I don't understand is how the EU public will afford this. I drive a Plugin Hybrid, but since moving from my old place and living in an apartment, I have no where to charge it. The closest charging station is around 12km from me and has 2 plugs (it is in an Aldi). After that there is another on 4-5 km after also with 2 plugs and one is mostly out of service. I am all for lower emission vehicles, but most peo…

Wireless charging would be the best solution. Charge where you park and no cables on the street:

https://witricity.com/products/automotive/

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#44

Post by 082349872349872 »

reify_null wrote: post #17
lnsru wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess, there should be a good charging network in Norway too. 2 years ago I was looking for a car and no available chargers close to the house was a big show stopper. Closest one is like 0,5 mile away, that makes no sense.

Norway has a decent charging infra, at least in the area where I'm at. It's been improving recently as well. Circle K (the petrol station chain formerly known as Statoil) has started installing chargers near where I live, so I would assume they are rolling this out nation wide. A lot of people have individual charging stations at their homes as well. I'm not sure of the state of charging stations in the smaller towns…

I had been assuming norway would have decent charging infra because I'd thought their parking lots already needed to be wired for engine heaters? Or are those only a swedish thing?

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#45

Post by nullandvoid »

virgilp wrote: post #25
seibelj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know, but Norway has profited immensely from oil and gas through their sovereign wealth fund, which is also used as a model for how other countries should establish social safety nets. If Norway was truly sorry, they should liquidate all of their oil profits and use it to invest in research to make a carbon neutral future. As it stands they ruined the environment and now will profit off the backs of the rest…

I doubt Norway is "sorry". Also, they're barely on the 13h place... what does US do, at the policy level? https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/ [edit] For all those who scale with population: it doesn't really matter for production. Population matters for consumption, and emissions (if they were producing 5% of US CO2, it would really look bad for Norway; but they don't - per capita the emit ha…

I know nothing much on this topic, but worth considering Norway's population is 5 million, versus 330 million in the US.

All of a sudden it doesn't seem that impressive if Norway is only producing 15% the amount of the US

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#46

Post by mywacaday »

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

Or is it their sovereign wealth fund is effectively subsidizing their success?

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#47

Post by kashug »

harrygeez wrote: post #37
cbmuser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric vehicles cause much more CO2 emissions during production as compared to cars with internal combustion engines due to complicated manufacturing process of the battery. If you’re comparing CO2 emissions, you have to consider the full lifecycle.

Really fascinating if true

It is also something a lot of people keep saying, but I have never seen proper documentation for it. So at this point I just think it is people repeating rumors.

But it would be interesting to read a proper documentation of it.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#48

Post by imtringued »

romanoderoma wrote: post #21
Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits. Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes. Definitely not free.

Germany plans to introduce a CO2 price and it won't end with cheaper fuel even though it is already quite expensive. The existing taxes aren't high enough to cover the CO2 price.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#49

Post by Brakenshire »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #23
Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

Free? Maybe in the US, but over here, 40-60% of the cost of fuel is taxes (Dutch source: https://www.unitedconsumers.com/tanken/informatie/opbouw-bra... ). Bonus taxes ("accijns", also raised on alcohol and tobacco) makes up 12.2 billion of the country's income ( https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/prinsjesdag/inkomst... at least a billion is spent on CO2 and nitrogen reduction, and reducing the dependency on na…

The taxes on fuel need to do a lot of heavy lifting, pricing in the cost of road building and maintenance, the effect of road congestion and air pollution in cities, and the effect of increased global warming. I’m sceptical they cover those factors.

Although, it probably would be better to move more of the tax burden to car use in cities, and away from fuel. Driving a car in the countryside is much less damaging than in a city centre.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#50

Post by romanoderoma »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #14
seibelj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places. However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral. The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality i…

Doesn’t most of Norway’s power come from hydro?

True, 96% of their power is produced from hydro, but two things have to be considered

- Norway has a population of 5 million

- because of the incentive to use electricity, the annual electricity consumption was about 26-27 MWh per inhabitant during 2004-2009 when the European union (EU15) average in 2008 was 7.4 MWh. Norway’s consumption of electricity was over three times higher per person compared to the EU 15 average in 2008

For comparison, Italy makes 41% of its power from hydro, but have to serve a population of 60 million

Post reply on HN