VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#11

Post by seibelj » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:36 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places.

However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral.

The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality in dense areas is better, at the cost of electricity being produced by dirty methods in (hopefully) more sparse areas.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#12

Post by gambiting » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:36 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #10

gambiting wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that lev…

Hybrids are great! So setting a goal that's impossible to meet with pure ICE isn't bonkers.

You're misunderstanding me. The goals were bonkers in the sense that the average goal was set way below pretty much every vehicle on the market - so the day it was announced, there were maybe 2-3 compliant models. Bonkers as in - "crazy" low. Not that they are bad. I myself drive a PHEV and my next car is definitely going to be a full electric.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#13

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #11

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places. However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral. The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality i…

Am I right in believing an EV has a lower carbon output per unit distance than an ICE vehicle even if charged by thermal coal power?

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#14

Post by shajznnckfke » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #11

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places. However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral. The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality i…

Doesn’t most of Norway’s power come from hydro?

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#15

Post by ximeng » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

Reformatted to be more legible and some notes added.

VAT is the largest item here, but others are potentially worth quite a bit too.

Taxes:

No purchase/import taxes (1990-) - would be 25% VAT, plus 2,400 NOK (260 USD) scrap duty tax, greenhouse gas tax for a/c of around 730 NOK (80 USD)

No annual road tax (1996-) - would be approximately 2960 NOK (350 USD)

50% reduced company car tax (2000-2018), 40% (2018-) - company cars are provided as a benefit taxed at around 30% of list price otherwise, however there are reductions of 25% for all vehicles over three years or cars used for work driving of 40,000km per year

Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-)

Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)

Tolls and Fares:

No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997-2017) - typical ferry fare for a fjord is around 100 NOK (11 USD), tolls are around 20 NOK (2 USD), so this could be a significant benefit if living near a toll road or ferry crossing

Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-)

Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019)

Parking:

Free municipal parking (1999-2017)

Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maximum 50% of the full price (2018-)

Bus lanes:

Access to bus lanes (2005-)

New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016)

Vans:

Fiscal compensation for the scrapping of fossil vans when converting to a zero-emission van (2018)

Allowing holders of driver licence class B to drive electric vans class C1 (light lorries) up to 4250 kg (2019)

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#16

Post by inglor_cz » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

Also, very cheap electricity, one of the cheapest in Europe.

Lots of empty mountains where it rains a lot and water can be stored in dams for power production.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#17

Post by reify_null » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

lnsru wrote: post #8

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

I guess, there should be a good charging network in Norway too. 2 years ago I was looking for a car and no available chargers close to the house was a big show stopper. Closest one is like 0,5 mile away, that makes no sense.

Norway has a decent charging infra, at least in the area where I'm at. It's been improving recently as well. Circle K (the petrol station chain formerly known as Statoil) has started installing chargers near where I live, so I would assume they are rolling this out nation wide. A lot of people have individual charging stations at their homes as well. I'm not sure of the state of charging stations in the smaller towns though.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#18

Post by seibelj » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

shajznnckfke wrote: post #14

seibelj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places. However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral. The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality i…

Doesn’t most of Norway’s power come from hydro?

I don’t know, but Norway has profited immensely from oil and gas through their sovereign wealth fund, which is also used as a model for how other countries should establish social safety nets.

If Norway was truly sorry, they should liquidate all of their oil profits and use it to invest in research to make a carbon neutral future. As it stands they ruined the environment and now will profit off the backs of the rest of the world through the legacy of their fossil fuel extraction.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#19

Post by adrianN » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #11

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places. However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral. The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality i…

Moving the environmental damage from "everywhere in the atmosphere", to mining sites and power plants is a good thing. Power plants can be replaced with carbon free energy sources, but synthetic fuels have such terrible efficiency that they only make sense for niche applications.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#20

Post by dzhiurgis » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

Meanwhile comparison NZ's(country where ~85% of power is renewable) EV incentives: - lowest yearly registration fee which will be changed into surcharge once over 2% of cars are EV (because they don't pay road taxes via fuel)...