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VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

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Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#21

Post by romanoderoma »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

That's not true.

EU has very strict policies about emissions.

The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits.

Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed

In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes.

Definitely not free.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#22

Post by seibelj »

adrianN wrote: post #19
seibelj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it weren’t the case, but the mining of rare earth materials is quite hazardous as well as the electricity production that powers EVs. We are mostly moving the environmental damage to other places. However if we can get to renewable energy (nuclear power, as solar panel manufacturing has a lot of damage as well currently) then we can truly be carbon neutral. The best thing to say about EVs is that air quality i…

Moving the environmental damage from "everywhere in the atmosphere", to mining sites and power plants is a good thing. Power plants can be replaced with carbon free energy sources, but synthetic fuels have such terrible efficiency that they only make sense for niche applications.

I mean if you don’t care about African mines and Chinese rivers that factories dump their effluent into, sure. But there is absolutely an environmental cost, just less to the wealthy nations that pay to move the damage elsewhere.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#23

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

Free? Maybe in the US, but over here, 40-60% of the cost of fuel is taxes (Dutch source: https://www.unitedconsumers.com/tanken/informatie/opbouw-bra...).

Bonus taxes ("accijns", also raised on alcohol and tobacco) makes up 12.2 billion of the country's income (https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/prinsjesdag/inkomst... at least a billion is spent on CO2 and nitrogen reduction, and reducing the dependency on natural gas in favor of electricity (that can be produced in a renewable fashion).

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#24

Post by foolfoolz »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

not true, each gallon of gas has about 75¢ of state/federal taxes. this revenue is lost on evs

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#25

Post by virgilp »

seibelj wrote: post #18
shajznnckfke wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t most of Norway’s power come from hydro?

I don’t know, but Norway has profited immensely from oil and gas through their sovereign wealth fund, which is also used as a model for how other countries should establish social safety nets. If Norway was truly sorry, they should liquidate all of their oil profits and use it to invest in research to make a carbon neutral future. As it stands they ruined the environment and now will profit off the backs of the rest…

I doubt Norway is "sorry". Also, they're barely on the 13h place... what does US do, at the policy level?

https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/

[edit] For all those who scale with population: it doesn't really matter for production. Population matters for consumption, and emissions (if they were producing 5% of US CO2, it would really look bad for Norway; but they don't - per capita the emit half than what US does per capita[1]). I guess it could matter in "benefit per capita"... if that were a thing (outside Norway maybe). I.e. how much did you benefit from US oil production, vs. how much Exxon benefited? I mean, yeah US citizens benefited from cheap gas - but that's because of middle-east production, so in reality the production elsewhere in the world should count on the US as "pollution".

[1]https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/norway?country=~NOR#p...

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#26

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

gambiting wrote: post #5
mtgx wrote: post #3

The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment (which by the way was also a suggestion Elon Musk made before it happened), is probably what will save VW in the long-term. It really started a fire underneath them that they couldn't just ignore, as most other carmakers, including VW continued to have the ingrained thinking that EVs are just a "fad" or a "n…

>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that lev…

One thing I don't understand is how the EU public will afford this. I drive a Plugin Hybrid, but since moving from my old place and living in an apartment, I have no where to charge it. The closest charging station is around 12km from me and has 2 plugs (it is in an Aldi). After that there is another on 4-5 km after also with 2 plugs and one is mostly out of service.

I am all for lower emission vehicles, but most people in my country live in apartments, a lot of them without garages even. What will people do? (I end up charging my car at my parents when I need, but even so it is a PITA as I have to leave it there for a few hours and then walk back home for 10-15 minutes)

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#27

Post by cbmuser »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #6
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

Electric vehicles cause much more CO2 emissions during production as compared to cars with internal combustion engines due to complicated manufacturing process of the battery.

If you’re comparing CO2 emissions, you have to consider the full lifecycle.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#28

Post by garbagetime »

romanoderoma wrote: post #21
Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits. Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes. Definitely not free.

Norway isn't a part of the EU.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#29

Post by afwe »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #23
Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

Free? Maybe in the US, but over here, 40-60% of the cost of fuel is taxes (Dutch source: https://www.unitedconsumers.com/tanken/informatie/opbouw-bra... ). Bonus taxes ("accijns", also raised on alcohol and tobacco) makes up 12.2 billion of the country's income ( https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/prinsjesdag/inkomst... at least a billion is spent on CO2 and nitrogen reduction, and reducing the dependency on na…

Why the downvotes?

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#30

Post by virgilp »

gambiting wrote: post #12
Dylan16807 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hybrids are great! So setting a goal that's impossible to meet with pure ICE isn't bonkers.

You're misunderstanding me. The goals were bonkers in the sense that the average goal was set way below pretty much every vehicle on the market - so the day it was announced, there were maybe 2-3 compliant models. Bonkers as in - "crazy" low. Not that they are bad. I myself drive a PHEV and my next car is definitely going to be a full electric.

Do you know when are those reductions to 75/50g set to go into effect? I've been hoping to move to electric vehicles for a while now but unfortunately the infrastructure is lacking, it's simply not practical to do so. I'm hopeful though that with these changes there will be more investment in electric recharging infrastructure.
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