Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#251

Post by DanBC » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #241

echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! So, I should never drive? Not OP, but I experience the same thing. Driving just makes me tired. I've tried running A/C at full cold, caffeine, loud music, audiobooks, etc. Nothing helps. The strange thing is, outside of driving I don't get tired or want to fall asleep except at bedtime. I don't drive when I'm drowsy. Driving make me drows…

> So, I should never drive?

> The bad thing about it is I usually don't realize that I'm getting sleepy until after I've dozed off once

In England this knowledge potentially tips your actions from accidental death into manslaughter.

You need to fix this.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#252

Post by spike021 » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #185

joosters wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's dangerous for you to drive, don't drive. It's as simple as that. If you can't stay alert enough for more than an hour, don't drive for more than an hour. If people think that #3 is acceptable, they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection.

That's not how real life works. It's dangerous for everyone to drive and in the future manual driving will be as legal as riding horses on highways is today. People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the populat…

The fact that this comment is a plethora of words trying to win an argument how falling asleep at the wheel shouldn't be considered unsafe is incredible.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#253

Post by frosted-flakes » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #150

adamsea wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if we are well-rested in general and healthy, and choose not to drive when we are tired. If we have a particular medical condition / issue then that is a different story. But folks don't randomly fall asleep (I think?) if they're getting sufficient rest and they're not already tired.

Not defending the GP but there are plenty of occasions where it’s unavoidable for some people to drive tired. Like families with young children and where adults don’t have the luxury of working from home nor good public transport links. Are they supposed to book a day off every time their child doesn’t sleep? But there are also measures one can take to mitigate tiredness while driving: winding the window down or turn…

> turning the AC down

Wouldn't you want to turn it up? You're less likely to fall asleep if you're cold.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#254

Post by spike021 » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #223

Silhouette wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This purist notion of 'they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection' crumbles at the most trivial examination when you consider that you're talking about leaving millions of people jobless or in significantly worse quality of life conditions You contend that there are millions of people who knowingly drive while tired enough to fall asleep at the wheel and with a history of doing so? If…

You've never had a bad night's sleep? Never had to make a longish unexpected trip because of a family emergency? Never had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet? In this case, if the person isn't able to get disability b/c of their condition, I can't fault them for doing what they need to survive. I don't like that it puts others at risk, and hope they are taking steps to reduce the risk. Detection technology that alerts…

Then you pay for a taxi, bus, or some other mode of transportation unless you're prepared to pay both financially and emotionally for any incident you wind up causing. Both for yourself and everyone else affected.

It's really not that complicated. Stop making choices for other people that could cause them to wind up injured or killed. Because yes, that is in fact what you're saying to do here.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#255

Post by scarmig » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

spike021 wrote: post #252

missosoup wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how real life works. It's dangerous for everyone to drive and in the future manual driving will be as legal as riding horses on highways is today. People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the populat…

The fact that this comment is a plethora of words trying to win an argument how falling asleep at the wheel shouldn't be considered unsafe is incredible.

That's an ungenerous reading of the comment. They would agree that falling asleep at the wheel is unsafe.

We've designed a system, however, that is set up such that it's bound to happen sometimes. Not everyone can call in to work and tell their boss "sorry, I slept badly last night, I'm not coming in" or order a $60 Uber to get somewhere on a whim. Moralizing at people is just virtue signaling.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#256

Post by spike021 » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #177

wow_yes wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the bus

Some people don’t have that privilege either.

I would argue that a car is totally a privilege that is above that of finding other means of transportation. I couldn't even afford one until I graduated college and was working full-time.

Before then I walked if I had to, sometimes over a mile depending on the destination, or took public transportation.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#257

Post by aspaviento » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #227

Silhouette wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This purist notion of 'they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection' crumbles at the most trivial examination when you consider that you're talking about leaving millions of people jobless or in significantly worse quality of life conditions You contend that there are millions of people who knowingly drive while tired enough to fall asleep at the wheel and with a history of doing so? If…

> Most people do not and would not drive while so tired that they knew they were likely to fall asleep while doing so For most people, the other option is to stop driving to work and then be jobless and eventually homeless, make their kids go hungry, or go bankrupt. You guys seriously seem to be completely disconnected from what reality looks like for 80%+ of the population. > In reality, only a tiny proportion of pe…

> For most people, the other option is to stop driving to work and then be jobless and eventually homeless, make their kids go hungry, or go bankrupt.

You say that as if there weren't any other options. You have public transport and you can share a car (and expenses) with someone who has your same destination.

> For most people, it's a life and family destroying sentence.

Dying in a car accident is literally a death sentence and has worse implications for your family.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#258

Post by echelon » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #234

kryogen1c wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've felt tired before and you know what I do? I nap in the parking lot. and this is exactly my point. you think being tired is exceptional, something you just "nap" and solve. you have clearly never been exhausted for months on end. I have. I have nodded off on highways, and worked with people that fell asleep at stoplights. not everyone gets to have 9 hours of sleep and then work 8 hours in a chair. > None of tha…

I agree -- it seems like many of the responders here are unaware of just how much privilege they have. (Or maybe they're just not in the US.) You can't just take a nap you need to pick a child up or the boss expects you at the next shift or you'll end up with DSS/Police at your door, or unemployed. Is this right? No, of course not, but it's reality. Hell, many people are driving vehicles that are very unsafe, which a…

I empathize, but this is still rationalization.

Having children is a choice, and sometimes people back themselves into untenable situations. You can't use children as an excuse to put the lives of others at risk. Realize what you're saying here.

People driving cars they can't afford to upkeep are also risking themselves and others.

Yes, it sucks. I empathize. I shouldn't be throwing stones. But if I'm a juror on a vehicular homicide case I'm not going to think less of deaths that were caused because the defendant had children to take to school. It would be more compelling than a DUI case, but it doesn't bring people back to life.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#259

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #248

irrational wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! So, I should never drive? Not OP, but I experience the same thing. Driving just makes me tired. I've tried running A/C at full cold, caffeine, loud music, audiobooks, etc. Nothing helps. The strange thing is, outside of driving I don't get tired or want to fall asleep except at bedtime. I don't drive when I'm drowsy. Driving make me drows…

No, you should never drive. I appreciate that this sucks if you live in an environment that requires you to drive, but you are way too blasé about something that runs a decent risk of killing someone, and is absolutely not normal .

[deleted]

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#260

Post by trhway » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

>No technology should compensate for this.

not surprisingly that the "holier-than-thou" purists' arguments in this thread sound the same as the typical conservative argument against contraception - "by decreasing the weight of consequences it will encourage vice behaviour", and not surprisingly that these style arguments just outright fail in real life.