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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

221–230 of 455 posts

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

Some people don't have that privilege. Ever known someone that works two jobs trying to make ends meet? You don't have a choice except to drive home from work.

Ever known someone that works two jobs trying to make ends meet? You don't have a choice except to drive home from work.

And will it be easier to make those ends meet when you are dead, or paralysed, or locked up because you left someone else dead or paralysed?

The arguments that a few people are making here, as if not driving while so tired you might fall asleep would cause some devastating loss to society and herald the end of life as we know it, are just silly. Only a very small number of drivers would be affected, because fortunately most people aren't so irresponsible in the first place. And given the extremely high likelihood of those few drivers getting themselves and, worse, possibly many other people injured or dead, with all the negative consequences that will imply, it still doesn't make sense from a greater good perspective.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how real life works. It's dangerous for everyone to drive and in the future manual driving will be as legal as riding horses on highways is today. People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the populat…

This purist notion of 'they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection' crumbles at the most trivial examination when you consider that you're talking about leaving millions of people jobless or in significantly worse quality of life conditions You contend that there are millions of people who knowingly drive while tired enough to fall asleep at the wheel and with a history of doing so? If…

You've never had a bad night's sleep? Never had to make a longish unexpected trip because of a family emergency? Never had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet?

In this case, if the person isn't able to get disability b/c of their condition, I can't fault them for doing what they need to survive. I don't like that it puts others at risk, and hope they are taking steps to reduce the risk. Detection technology that alerts them seems like a step in the right direction.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> You shouldn't be driving. Period. what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say. reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork, working multiple jobs, caring for a newborn, caring for the sick. that covers millions of people, off the top of my head, without doing any research. and those are only the most black-and-white examples. more ambiguous cases include: driving from physical activity like OP men…

If you're for some reason drunk and one of these reasons to drive comes up, does the logic still apply? I'd say not. So why would it apply to being tired?

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. I've driven the family from Northern Califorina to Sourthern California quite a few times, many of them overnight. It took one instance of actually falling asleep at the wheel for a few seconds to realize "oh, that's the difference between tire…

The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. Then they can follow the same rule as for overtaking: if in doubt, don't. It's not complicated. There is no way you are tired enough to be actually falling asleep without realising you're far too tired to be driving safely. It's not as if it's…

Have you ever dozed off on the road? I ask because unless you've experienced it, it would probably catch you completely off guard as well. Sometimes the part of your brain that would normally make you aware that you're falling asleep is the first to go. I think this happens more while driving because you think you're concentrating on driving but really your brain is shutting off bit by bit until you're finally at a point where you're basically a mindless zombie. It's happened to me before and it absolutely caught me off guard.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Car fatigue is real. The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. It can happen to the best of us and when you realise it’s safer to pull to the side of the road. Unlike a DUI this neither voluntary nor reckless unless you ignore the warning signs and keep on driving.

> The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat.

I'd add an occasional glance at the horizon too , if you're on a long trip. You can make it a game if you're driving a new route (guess which mountain is closest to the road you're on) Frequently changing focal distance helps a lot to prevent eye fatigue.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how real life works. It's dangerous for everyone to drive and in the future manual driving will be as legal as riding horses on highways is today. People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the populat…

This purist notion of 'they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection' crumbles at the most trivial examination when you consider that you're talking about leaving millions of people jobless or in significantly worse quality of life conditions You contend that there are millions of people who knowingly drive while tired enough to fall asleep at the wheel and with a history of doing so? If…

> Most people do not and would not drive while so tired that they knew they were likely to fall asleep while doing so

For most people, the other option is to stop driving to work and then be jobless and eventually homeless, make their kids go hungry, or go bankrupt. You guys seriously seem to be completely disconnected from what reality looks like for 80%+ of the population.

> In reality, only a tiny proportion of people drive while so tired that they might actually fall asleep at the wheel

You have no idea how microsleep works. It does not involve 'knowingly driving while tired enough to fall asleep'. This single statement makes it clear that you're expressing some pretty strong and sure-sounding opinions on a subject that you know nothing about. You (as in specifically you) could be experiencing microsleep on a regular basis and never even know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsleep

And even when talking about the other cause - fatigued driving, are you suggesting that people come in to work late after every night they had poor sleep? I mean that would actually be a decent policy if not for the fact that a handful of instances of that in a year would get most people fired? Are you suggesting that someone shouldn't drive home after a long shift? (do they like, sleep at their workplace? have you thought through this?). And we're back to my first point - I don't think you understand what life is like for the majority of the population who live paycheck to paycheck and work any job that they can get just to survive and keep their kids fed.

As someone enjoying the 'privilege' of working in tech and having flexible hours and being able to arbitrarily work from home and having enough savings to take a 6 month long sabbatical without any financial strain, I can see where you might be coming from. As someone who spent the first half of their life working blue collar jobs and having a panic attack over an unexpected 300 dollar expense which literally meant I spent 2 weeks eating nothing but pasta, I'm pretty sure you either never knew or have forgotten what life is like for most people out there. Yeah for you and I being banned from driving is just a mild inconvenience and 'sigh, now I have to use Uber for all travel'. For most people, it's a life and family destroying sentence.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#228
post #35

Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…

How about DOG_ON_DASHBOARD and DOG_IN_LAP. Seriously; you are operating heavy and deadly equipment. Keep your pets in the back seat at least.

There was a demo at CES this year that detected the position of a dog in the car [0]. let's hope it gets to market soon.

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2yRaztxSEQw

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#229
This should have been done much earlier. Its a great thing for safety. I do have concerns with privacy, but not much you I can do about that.

Elon was to bullish on self-driving and believed this 'transition' technology was not necessary. I hope they role this out soon.

And its not just safety, it just makes sense to not having to torque the wheel.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#230
This is creepy. I don't want more electronics keeping eyes on me.

In fact I don't want to be driving at all. Bring on the full-on self-driving car.

I don't have a car though as I live in a city where I don't really need one (or could even park it if I wanted to). But in some countries you can't do without one sadly.

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