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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#141

Post by foepys »

danudey wrote: post #126
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

This sort of technology would be great, even if the data never leaves the user's account, is never farmed by Tesla, and is never used by the autopilot. Imagine if the parent poster falls asleep at the wheel and does injure or kill someone. They could point to the fact that it's never happened before, but if the court can subpoena Tesla to get data that indicates this guy dozes off with some regularity (and can see in…

The court will very likely not have to subpoena anything. Tesla has a history of publicly putting all blame on the driver when Autopilot once again kills a person by driving them into a divider or a stationary truck. They will go out of their way to show and twist the driver's harvested data to their advantage.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#142

Post by jacksonlango »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #119
gamblor956 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

Nonsense, this is almost certainly not a medical condition, this is normal biology. The constant attention required when driving makes everyone tired, during long drives especially, and if you're tired when you start driving from sleep deprivation or stress it's even worse. The important thing is that you recognize when you're tired and choose not to drive at those times. People get tired and need to sleep, usually,…

You're using your experience of "I've never fallen asleep at the wheel" to normalize "I have a history of dozing off at the wheel" FYI.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#143

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #136
myHNAccount123 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this persons actions are VERY concerning. They need to change their behaviour immediately. To Ogre_... you cannot self diagnose by saying "I know when I'm feeling tired so I nap." Go To A Doctor NOW.

Im struggling to imagine how going to the doctor is going to fix this guy's issue. Do you hypothesize the doctor will be able to cure him?

They have good medicines for narcolepsy nowadays. Modafinil is an extremely good stimulant that reduces accidental sleeping like this significantly. They can also look at their sleep and see if there is an underlying issue that can be fixed.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#144

Post by serf »

ZitchDog wrote: post #128
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Would you accept that response as the reasoning of a judge after an incident?

I wouldn't. I'd consider it criminal negligence to get behind the wheel of a car at times when it's impossible to make a suitable effort to drive such equipment.

It's not acceptable to hop into a car drunk, either.

The effects aren't really that much different between the two, response-time wise.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#145

Post by echelon »

agentdrtran wrote: post #124
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

You know people are going to do it, though, so it's good to have checks on it.

I disagree wholeheartedly. This technology empowers people to make stupid decisions and rationalize them.

We never had people deliberately sleeping in cars (with pillows!) before autopilot was a thing. If the kinds of people prone to make these types of decisions come to trust technology to save them, we're going to wind up in a worse spot than before the technology existed.

People will rely on the tech to save them when it was never meant for that.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#146

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

throwaway12757 wrote: post #3

Sadly, one of the reasons I will never buy a Tesla. The lack of privacy concerns me.

Operating a motor vehicle on public roads is just about the most compelling reason one should have to sacrifice privacy like this.

People have, on the whole, emphatically demonstrated their complete inability to drive responsibly. ~40k deaths, hundreds of thousands of serious injuries, and nearly a trillion dollars in costs every year. Overwhelmingly due to driver error and negligence.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#147

Post by marcosdumay »

awinter-py wrote: post #18

'graybox' AI products (mostly automatic but periodically return emergency control to pesky human) are going to need to model driver alertness the car certainly should warn you at lower danger threshold if it thinks you'll need more time to return to full attention (even in a zero-shame case, like for example you're checking your mirror but the car thinks there's a hazard in front) separate question of 4th / 5th amend…

The human attentiveness model is very easy: `is_attentive _ = False`.

Those grayboxes probably already take more lives than they save on airplanes, and will be orders of magnitude worse on cars.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#148

Post by threatofrain »

jlarocco wrote: post #107
fudged71 wrote: post #46

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

> These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might be flagged as inattentive during an autopilot crash and therefore at fault? I'm not understanding your point here, and you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. A driver with a disability that makes them inattentive ca…

Safety is in the sum of all things, AKA performance. An ADD person may drive a car safely and we might not know why; what we do know is performance.

If an ADD person does then get into an accident, should they endure higher civil and criminal risk, regardless of prior performance and in light of their condition?

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#149

Post by [deleted] »

danudey wrote: post #126
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

This sort of technology would be great, even if the data never leaves the user's account, is never farmed by Tesla, and is never used by the autopilot. Imagine if the parent poster falls asleep at the wheel and does injure or kill someone. They could point to the fact that it's never happened before, but if the court can subpoena Tesla to get data that indicates this guy dozes off with some regularity (and can see in…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#150

Post by laumars »

adamsea wrote: post #132
ZitchDog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Not if we are well-rested in general and healthy, and choose not to drive when we are tired. If we have a particular medical condition / issue then that is a different story. But folks don't randomly fall asleep (I think?) if they're getting sufficient rest and they're not already tired.

Not defending the GP but there are plenty of occasions where it’s unavoidable for some people to drive tired. Like families with young children and where adults don’t have the luxury of working from home nor good public transport links. Are they supposed to book a day off every time their child doesn’t sleep?

But there are also measures one can take to mitigate tiredness while driving: winding the window down or turning the AC down, putting energising music on, stopping mid-journey and taking a break, etc.

There are also medical conditions one can have where they can fall asleep even when not tired. However I believe you’re denied a licence if you do suffer from any of them so this might well be a moot point.

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