My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#511

Post by x0x0 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #479

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

In what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?

If you sell to larger customers, soc2 or other type audits require background checks.

For our business, larger customer MSAs often have requirements about criminal convictions.

We additionally require -- per soc2 as well as MSAs -- to background check our contractors.

As the twitter author said, it's a thing that I could potentially work around, but there's only so many hours in the day. And I would probably have to be able to permanently guarantee that eg an employee with a felony conviction never had access to certain data.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#512

Post by hnracer » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

dhosek wrote: post #509

hnracer wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that the sentences are longer after controlling for variables such as (1) differences in previous convictions which increase sentence duration, (2) severity of the crime? If this evidence is provided, I am happy to agree with you that there is systematic racism in the justice system.

Yes. There is abundant evidence of this.

Link?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#513

Post by thrownaway954 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

Any public or government job will require a background check, most private jobs don't. That doesn't mean you can't get a government job. I will say that the doors are there, you just have to have the courage to knock.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#514

Post by murderfs » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

larrywright wrote: post #501

murderfs wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the judicial system determines that the appropriate punishment for a crime is X years, then at the end of that time they should be given a chance at a fresh start. This is a poor argument: the judicial system has also determined, by lack of prohibition, that it's appropriate for employers to discriminate based on criminal record.

That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed.

But that wasn't your argument!

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#515

Post by sterkekoffie » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

Jackypot wrote: post #400

I do wonder why people are so motivated to help the perpetrators of violent crimes. You could take that same energy and help the victims instead. I doubt whoever suffered whatever violence it was that merited 13 years has forgotten the whole thing by now. I doubt they're stoked to see their attacker off to start a cushy new job. You don't get 13 years for something trivial.* If after that time you find it to get a jo…

Prison in the U.S. is traumatic and life-ruining by design and people who are imprisoned become victims themselves. Not only that, but a huge number of offenders have previously been the victim of a crime, or will be after they're released. The world is not made up of attackers and sufferers, it's made up of people. You can waste your time allocating empathy based on your own flawed moral calculus or you can just try to see people as individuals and treat them accordingly. Note that this could also mean treating people worse than the justice system did.

If the empathy-allocating thing appeals to you, you can think about it in terms of externalities. If you can prevent recidivism, you can proactively "help the victims" by preventing their victimization in the first place. What drives recidivism? Primarily, poverty, unemployment, social marginalization, untreated mental health issues. People with no options will act as if they don't have options.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#516

Post by lostlogin » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #461

lostlogin wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone could be rehabilitated Many systems disagree with this and have sentencing systems which allow a true life sentence. Sometimes this is due to a mental health aspect.

Putting an ill person in jail for a lifetime sounds extremely wrong.

I agree. But letting someone who is dangerous live free in the community isn’t ideal either. The line is thin and blurry and has a ton of examples of being managed poorly.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#517

Post by Meph504 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

ry454 wrote: post #485

anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

On paper, I'd be a felon for serious offences on at least 4 episodes. If the law was followed to the letter, and if somebody nosy had enough access and time to inspect the past 15 years of my life, I'd be serving at least two life sentences. The smallest offence is carrying a hunter's knife in my car: that's a 3rd degree felony as I'd discovered recently. In practice, though, if the law was followed to the letter, 90…

Where do you live that it is a felony to have a hunting knife in your car, and also where felony's have degrees?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#518

Post by poulsbohemian » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #479

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

In what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?

When I was in consulting, it was part of our regular contact language that we had verified backgrounds and that we wouldn't place a felon on site with a client. A surprising number of clients even outside banking, finance, government, etc made a point of enforcing this language, even conducting their own background checks.

Freelancing was the approach I saw some people do successfully, but there were lots of projects we couldn't put them on.

We even saw clients that refused anyone who had even a misdemeanor, at which point I discovered how many of our consultants had misdemeanor DUIs or arrests for various non-violent reasons.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#519

Post by pbronez » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

throwaway_45 wrote: post #486

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

Are you white? I think Race has a big part of if you make it or not especially if you have committed a felony.

Interestingly, some well-intentioned “ban the box” policies backfired in terms of racial justice in hiring. These campaigns managed to outlaw the “are you a felon?” question on job applications in an attempt to make it easier for felons, many of whom belong to racial minorities, to get a fair shot at employment based on their skills. Unfortunately this caused employers to hire even fewer members of those minority groups. Apparently without the box, employers see minority hires as an unacceptable risk.

The world is a disappointing place sometimes.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#520

Post by Meph504 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

thrownaway954 wrote: post #513

Any public or government job will require a background check, most private jobs don't. That doesn't mean you can't get a government job. I will say that the doors are there, you just have to have the courage to knock.

I don't think it's fair or wise to tell people this, do you any data to support this claim?

I don't know any career track companies that don't do background checks, there are too many services now that make them insanely easy to do, that it's basically uploading a resume and/or filling out the form and you can get results back the same day.