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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#471

Post by mmmBacon »

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

I agree. I think if you went to prison, you served your debt to society and are square with the house. Your punishment should stop. This includes inability to find work etc... with some sensible limits for certain high-trust related positions.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#472

Post by BlueGh0st »

anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble.

In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony checkbox until that day, despite having been hired over a month before!

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#473

Post by centimeter »

charlesu wrote: post #319
centimeter wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny watching people come up with all these complicated epicycle-ridden theories for why success is heritable, when the true answer is very obvious - most behaviors related to success are highly genetically heritable. This is the incontrovertible conclusion one draws when they critically observe the results of highly controlled and conditioned twin/sibling studies (on incarceration rate, among other things). Of…

> most behaviors related to success are highly genetically heritable And the implications of this are what? See, that's the problem with these claims. They serve no purpose other than to suggest that some people are inherently better or more deserving than others. But we live in a liberal democracy based on equality before the law. It wouldn't matter if some people are more predisposed to crime or smarter or whatever…

If the law is blind, you expect people with heritable traits associated with criminality to get in trouble with the law more often. I.e. all is as expected.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#475

Post by 5thaccount »

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472
anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

Have you tried doing freelancer stuff? When no one will give you a chance, giving yourself one is probably your best bet.

I have no idea how well that would work, but it seems like the only variable you can control.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#477

Post by deathgrips »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #287
rorykoehler wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft, fraud and violence are applicable for all jobs surely.

Surely not, if by "applicable" you mean to suggest that employers would never want to hire such a person for any job. Should a person convicted of theft, who's served their time, paid the fine, made the victims whole, and learned not to steal, be discarded from consideration as a useful member of society? In case it's not clear, I think they should have the same rights as any other human being. No one seriously advoc…

>and learned not to steal

That's the issue at hand. Serving a prison sentence doesn't mean that you have learned not to steal. It's difficult for the company to verify that you have "learned your lesson".

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#478

Post by Teever »

hevelvarik wrote: post #463
romwell wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said implies that any person that has committed a violent crime remains a danger to other people, forever - and should also be punished, forever. This is what the American justice system is like. In a saner world, (only) people who are a danger to others would be separated from the society, and being set free would be and indication that you are no longer a danger. In the US, being released from prison signa…

I dunno, it takes a lot more than a fistfight to get put in prison for violent offense. Sure people can change but only a solid work history or trusted recommendation can give you any real confidence. You may have to fire this person, or they may have to report to an abusive manage for some period of time. Some offenses are difficult to walk away from untainted.

The summer after I graduated from HS a kid I knew got into a fist fight in the parking lot of a bar. He was punched once and he went down and cracked his skull on the curb and died.

The person who hit him was charged with manslaughter.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#479

Post by yreg »

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472
anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

In what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#480

Post by ivalm »

Tycho wrote: post #397
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's break this down. Someone commits murder, and gets sent to prison for 13 years. They are out now. How do we deal with them? 1. If everyone says that they will no longer want to work with such a person, especially rich people, who can enforce that want, that person will end up working with poor people. The rich people are making a classist argument. 2. Worse, if that person, cannot even get bad jobs, they will be…

I suppose another possibility is that the market just deals with it. Through wages, employee retention, or 'danger money' for the non-convict colleagues.

Market "dealing" with it means high recidivism. It's the tragedy of the commons. It might be in everyone's individual interest to not hire an ex-felon, but it leads to a worse outcome for everyone.
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