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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#311

Post by smnrchrds »

noobermin wrote: post #289
ticmasta wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demands for background checks tends to be inversely proportional to the ability of the employee/applicant to do criminal or civil harm. You'll need a clean criminal record to work a random retail job but could have numerous convictions and be a software developer. A crummy rental will require it but fancy executive rental will not. I know some of this has historical/data underpinnings on experience, but fear most…

Do you have evidence this is true? Also software developers can cause loads of damage I think.

That's why they say "inversely proportional".

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#312

Post by nix23 »

nexuist wrote: post #153
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #130

In Germany I was asked to provide my criminal record while working at a payment processing startup that had to obtain certain certificates. They were probably looking for crimes of a fiscal nature however, which is understandable. Second chances are second chances but security is mostly about trust. Another job at a startup in Germany that worked in less tightly controlled spaces has never asked me to produce my crim…

What crimes are applicable to software engineers, then? I don't think there are any laws punishing you from writing bad code, nor are there laws addressing data theft or security misconfigurations. GDPR applies against companies and not individual people, as far as I can tell. Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking?

>Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking?

Or willingly install Windows Server facing the internet directly, that would be the other one ;)

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#314

Post by patmcc »

bhawks wrote: post #189
patmcc wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what should happen to that person, exactly? Should they be in prison forever? Should they be released but not allowed to work? Should they only be allowed to work by themselves? I understand your reluctance, but the alternatives to "let the released felon work" are not great.

Actions have consequences and after breaking major societal taboos like murder or rape it is very difficult or impossible to repair the damage a person has done to society. I have trouble judging people negatively if they don't want to associate with a person who has murdered or raped someone.

I have the same visceral reaction - if I was seated next to a murderer at work I'd probably be wary. But visceral reactions tend not to make good social policy, and that's really my concern. We have some number of people who commit violent crimes. We either have to imprison them forever or let them out sometime. If we let them out we either need to support them or allow them to work. If we allow them to work do we relegate them to some low class of work, or allow them into white collar/privileged professions?

We should be concerned about creating the best society for everyone. That means sometimes we need to suppress our immediate/unconscious reactions.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#315

Post by jrochkind1 »

Chernobog wrote: post #53

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

The U.S. is just so awful.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#316

Post by [deleted] »

monksy wrote: post #249
jedimastert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could assume hacking, fraud, corporate espionage, etc. along with info relevant to the software (i.e. if you make banking software I'd assume fiscal crime would be at least somewhat relevant)

Hacking would probably be a plus for a software enginer. They know how to debug systems. Espionage, theft, and violent crimes... That's a different situation (I don't want someone coming after me after I liter their PR with comments)

[deleted]

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#317

Post by shadowfox »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #285
dfxm12 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

leaving former criminals with little chance at success It's worth noting that it also leaves their children a smaller chance at success as well[0], and then the cycle continues. When you add this to the fact that Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders [1], this adds up to one aspect of systemic racism in America. 0 - https://projects.sfchron…

It's important to note that [1] seems to refer to federal sentencing, and almost all criminal law in the U.S. is state law. [1] is a small subset of what's going on, and it can't be used to generalize.

Not the OP, but it is interesting that the US criminal law is so state dependent. Out of curiosity: do you have reason to believe that the sentencing disparity is better when considering states?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#318

Post by mywittyname »

noobermin wrote: post #286
koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.

A lot of Americans don't feel like "bad" people are deserving of freedoms. Definitions for "bad" vary from person to person, which is why this kind of thing is so pervasive.

Also some people can be forgiven while other's can't. A group of people will scream that rapists should get the death penalty, but then go on to elect an admitted rapist to represent them.

In short, we Americans are really good at being hypocritical when it suits us, and we hold other groups to a much higher standard than we hold ourselves.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#319

Post by charlesu »

centimeter wrote: post #307
dfxm12 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

leaving former criminals with little chance at success It's worth noting that it also leaves their children a smaller chance at success as well[0], and then the cycle continues. When you add this to the fact that Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders [1], this adds up to one aspect of systemic racism in America. 0 - https://projects.sfchron…

It’s funny watching people come up with all these complicated epicycle-ridden theories for why success is heritable, when the true answer is very obvious - most behaviors related to success are highly genetically heritable. This is the incontrovertible conclusion one draws when they critically observe the results of highly controlled and conditioned twin/sibling studies (on incarceration rate, among other things). Of…

> most behaviors related to success are highly genetically heritable

And the implications of this are what?

See, that's the problem with these claims. They serve no purpose other than to suggest that some people are inherently better or more deserving than others. But we live in a liberal democracy based on equality before the law. It wouldn't matter if some people are more predisposed to crime or smarter or whatever. The law should be blind.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#320

Post by gjs278 »

monksy wrote: post #249
jedimastert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could assume hacking, fraud, corporate espionage, etc. along with info relevant to the software (i.e. if you make banking software I'd assume fiscal crime would be at least somewhat relevant)

Hacking would probably be a plus for a software enginer. They know how to debug systems. Espionage, theft, and violent crimes... That's a different situation (I don't want someone coming after me after I liter their PR with comments)

ok and they might hack a customer. or you after the fact if you upset them. it’s the violation of where they’re allowed to debug that is the issue.
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