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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#241

Post by staticassertion »

kyleee wrote: post #191
staticassertion wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can compare anything I like, actually. That's my right and my responsibility as the one who determines who comes to work with me and my colleagues. You can say that all "though crimes" are incomparable to legal indictments, and when you are hiring people that is your right as well.

Would you prefer to be murdered or to recieve a racist remark directed towards you?

Do you think this question is relevant or clever? I would rather a racist remark me directed towards me. I hope that satisfies whatever you're after.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#242

Post by GeoAtreides »

minitoar wrote: post #123
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a problem though: - The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" - The definition of "racist tweet" on the other hand is as fuzzy as it can be. Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like" If we think that racist tweets shou…

What do you think a good definition of “racist tweet” would be?

"[Do bad things] to [racial minority|racial group]!"

The definition of "bad things" is left as an exercise to the reader.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#243

Post by mindcrime »

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of their record?

TBH, my answer to that is "I don't know." It has never come up, so I haven't given it a lot of thought.

But it is a legitimate question, IMO, and I don't see why you're being downvoted for simply raising the question. I gave you an upvote to help offset that, FWIW.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#244

Post by FpUser »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #108
staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

There's a problem though: - The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" - The definition of "racist tweet" on the other hand is as fuzzy as it can be. Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like" If we think that racist tweets shou…

>"The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt"

This is nice theory which in practice often comes down to: you can not afford proper defense (unless you want government lawyer who will happily sleep through the whole case), you do not have enough to make bail so here is the deal: plead guilty to this lesser crime or we would f,,k you up royally later on.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#245

Post by dahfizz »

atraktor wrote: post #207

I guarantee that if you give every prisoner or delinquent to do what he likes or a normal job, he will be like the rest of us, a completely normal person. Bad government and lack of smart strategy and vision makes criminals, nothing more.

> I guarantee that if you give every prisoner or delinquent to do what he likes or a normal job, he will be like the rest of us, a completely normal person. Bad government and lack of smart strategy and vision makes criminals, nothing more.

That's a very strong statement.

Certainly there are a lot of people that fall into gangs, etc because they have no other alternatives. But rapists don't rape because their day job is boring. Serial killers aren't in it for the money, either. Don't be naive.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#246

Post by throwaway894345 »

lostlogin wrote: post #230
throwaway894345 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very interested in understanding how much of that recidivism rate is attributable to "ex-felon discrimination" or whatever we might call it as opposed to other variables.

It gets very philosophical fast. Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of society and is there to serve as a deterrent. Over emphasis on the need to punish seems to cause a lot of long term harm.

I don't dispute that, but I'm genuinely not sure how that fits in with my comment. Could you clarify?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#247

Post by dahfizz »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #116
haunter wrote: post #23

>13 years for a serious, violent crime That can be a manslaughter or second/first degree murder in some states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder...

What's your point? Do you feel that after serving a sentence for such a crime, the perpetrator should not have a chance at a "normal" life? Should they live the rest of their days continually punished by society for what they did? If so, should we instead increase the length of the sentence for such a crime? To how long?

There is a big difference between "This person should be imprisoned and completely seperated from society" and "I should have the right to not work with violent people". I have no problem with a convicted murderer being released from prison, but I'm not going to invite them over for dinner.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#248

Post by sebmellen »

dfxm12 wrote: post #218
sebmellen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope that all agree a violent crime is worse than a racist tweet. However, there is a sentiment of sympathy afforded to murderers (that they're somehow deserving of rehabilitation) which is not always extended to those who have tweeted racist things. Perhaps this comes because a murder can be seen as a sad result of circumstances. Perhaps the criminal only had to murder because they had a bad upbringing and n…

This talk is about Justine Sacco. Within 7-8 months of being fired, she got a new job and has continued to work her way up the corporate ladder ever since [0]. You're right. Your line of reasoning is nonsense. 0 - https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinesacco

Yes, a joke in bad taste is richly deserving of mass public humiliation, getting fired, and not having work for 8 months. I love our brave new world!

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#249

Post by monksy »

jedimastert wrote: post #179
nexuist wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What crimes are applicable to software engineers, then? I don't think there are any laws punishing you from writing bad code, nor are there laws addressing data theft or security misconfigurations. GDPR applies against companies and not individual people, as far as I can tell. Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking?

I could assume hacking, fraud, corporate espionage, etc. along with info relevant to the software (i.e. if you make banking software I'd assume fiscal crime would be at least somewhat relevant)

Hacking would probably be a plus for a software enginer. They know how to debug systems.

Espionage, theft, and violent crimes... That's a different situation (I don't want someone coming after me after I liter their PR with comments)

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#250

Post by padseeker »

alexashka wrote: post #233

> The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productive member of society. What makes you think they want to be a 'productive member of society'? It's not that hard to be a member of free society instead of prison society - don't break the law, repeatedly. There'll always be unlucky exceptions and if your goal…

how many ex-felons do you know?
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