Live data from Hacker News

My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

twitter.com

111–120 of 670 posts

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#111

The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productive member of society. The Last Mile seems like a great program to share our tech skills and knowledge with people who really need a leg up. I will be signing up as a volunteer today.

Felon disenfranchisement is also disgustingly anti-democratic and further segregates them from society at large.

If you have enough felons for them to affect the outcome, your problem isn't that they have the right to vote, it's that you're arresting too many people.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

I'm having a hard time finding data for the state in question (California), but at a federal level this is very much not true. BOP stats show 46% of inmates are in for drug offenses, and 5% are in for property crime[1] [1] https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen...

[deleted]

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#113

tldr: "I reached out to a friend who is Head of Engineering at a ~500 person fintech company."

Comes to show, you still need connections to make it. Connections are everything, skill and intellect is largely secondary when removed from how well you network and gain friends in the industry or otherwise.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#114

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

Did they complete a sentence that was decided to be appropriate for the crime they committed? Then I don't mind at all. They can't change their past, but they can control their future. If they are still dangerous after serving their time, then they should be held in prison longer.

The problem with this line of thinking is that some how people think that serving time in prison does anything to make someone less likely to commit crime. Our prison system doesn't positively reform people, in fact it almost certainly will make things worse. If you make someone spend 13 years in a prison, whose social rules are defined by violent criminals the persons cultural norms change.

The person doesn't leave prison ready to productively reenter society, they leave prison indoctrinated into prison culture.

If you made a programming error at work, and instead of someone spending time to teach you how you ended up making that mistake, and working to give you the knowledge and tools to not make it again. But instead made you stand in a corner for a fixed duration of time, it would be illogical to assume you would be a better programmer after standing in the corner, its the same with the US prison system.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#115
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would be a fitting punishment if sitting for 13 years in prison is not enough, when will she be done with paying her debt to society?

I think the real issue is that we don’t rehabilitate, so under our current system of justice, I would argue that it’s normal for someone to feel something in proximity of such a convict. The reason being, they were probably treated like an animal for over a decade. Give them hope and some courses to get their shit together and suddenly I’m less worried about the whole situation.

So a whole lot of "not in my neighborhood".

It has to start somewhere. Like...giving them a good paying job in a thriving industry. You're contradicting yourself and you only wrote 3 sentences. You've being shown the proof of how we can rehabilitate and then going "but IDK, doesn't seem good enough..."

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#116
post #23

>13 years for a serious, violent crime That can be a manslaughter or second/first degree murder in some states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder...

What's your point? Do you feel that after serving a sentence for such a crime, the perpetrator should not have a chance at a "normal" life? Should they live the rest of their days continually punished by society for what they did?

If so, should we instead increase the length of the sentence for such a crime? To how long?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#117
post #31

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…

> The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing.

FWIW, it's not evenly distributed in the US. We have jurisdictions like Chicago where violent offenders are released on probation after a few months or years only to reoffend. Further, these violent crimes aren't evenly distributed across Chicago, but rather they disproportionately affect poor, typically minority communities. It's well-known that crime (esp violent) is driving businesses (and jobs) out of these communities and perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Presumably these light-on-crime policies (and similarly "defund the police") are a misguided attempt to help these communities, since the criminal justice system is biased against the poor and minorities (and men, but that seems to not factor into any calculus); however, they're exacerbating the very problem they purport to solve. Indeed, Chicago appears to be on track for its most violent year since the gang wars of the early nineties, after decades of consistent, remarkable, commendable progress.

For me, this underscores the importance of properly understanding the dynamics of the problem we're trying to solve--it's not sufficient to be well-intentioned or to have the right bumper sticker. It also highlights the importance of free-speech and open inquiry, since we can't collectively understand these dynamics without the kind of robust debate that proponents of political correctness and cancel culture aspire to suppress. And note that their intentions are presumably good--they don't want (at least some) hateful talking points to be espoused; however, the well-being of these communities isn't worth trading in exchange for the suppression of hateful talking points (never mind the more abstract reasons for preserving free speech, such as "what happens when your ideological cohort falls out of power and someone else gets to decide what speech is permissible?") and moreover prior to the mainstreaming of restrictive-speech ideals (let's say circa 2014-2015 but this is all pretty fuzzy), this really wasn't a problem--American society did a pretty good job of marginalizing those who would openly espouse hateful viewpoints (although some will advocate for a meaninglessly broad definition of 'hate' or would argue that any speech from anyone they don't like can fairly be considered a 'racist dogwhistle', but those kinds of bad faith arguments notwithstanding...) and things were gradually improving for everyone.

Anyway, I apologize for going a bit off track. Hopefully this stream-of-consciousness prompts productive discussion and introspection.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#118
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest what proportion of criminals let off with suspended sentences have hundreds of convictions?

I don't have statistics but there are incidents like these that are regularly reported in Irish and International Media: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/woman-most-c...

Sounds like that lady needs care more than she needs more prison time. Particularly after a 16 month sentence and the petty nature of the actual crime.

Incidents like these get in the national press precisely because they are rare and hence interesting. Do you think there are tens of people, hundred of people or thousands of people with >100 criminal convictions?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#119
post #106
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Thought Crime weighs heavier than statutory crimes? Who decides the guilt or innocence of the thoughts?

you're trying to be clever, but statutory crimes are often either ridiculous (drug offenses) or can be put behind you and forgiven (if they were a product of circumstances or culture at the time.) whereas what you're calling "thought crime" is more analogous to saying "i intend to commit statutory crimes in the future".

A thought crime is analogous to saying "I think that imprisoning people for drugs is unfair".

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#120
post #60

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

in US - Most employers don't have super deep pockets to do the background checks, and they pay to do a check in each of your previous addresses listed and decide how far back to go to pull the records. [...If I had a reason to...] To give a higher chance of passing a background at a small employer I may list only my current address. It depends how complex the the HR team is.
Post reply on HN