French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave • Hacker News Board

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#361

Post by tchalla » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

marcusverus wrote: post #321

echelon wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

Folks love to talk about these marginal 'perks' in Social Democracies, and the benefits experienced by the least fortunate, but you never hear about the costs of these programs or their impact on the finances of the average household. All these great benefits are, of course, funded via massive taxation of the middle and upper classes. You can see the (relative) impact in the data, which reveal household incomes to be…

> Folks love to talk about these marginal 'perks' in Social Democracies, and the benefits experienced by the least fortunate, but you never hear about the costs of these programs or their impact on the finances of the average household.

What process would you use to come up with a set of quantitative criteria that would measure costs and benefits?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#362

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #200

sdfqasdghj wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP won't have seen much of their child's first 3 months either. Their time with their child probably started when the child was 8 months old and lasted until the child was about 12 months old...

why do you assume that? With my second child I took 4 months of parental leave (2 of which simultaneously with my wife) & divided between ages 0-2 & 10-12 months old.

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#363

Post by Latty » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

This is very sensible to me as a way to stop discrimination. If you make it so economically the impact of a birth is similar for men and women, you reduce the incentive to discriminate.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#364

Post by jononor » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

marcusverus wrote: post #321

echelon wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

Folks love to talk about these marginal 'perks' in Social Democracies, and the benefits experienced by the least fortunate, but you never hear about the costs of these programs or their impact on the finances of the average household. All these great benefits are, of course, funded via massive taxation of the middle and upper classes. You can see the (relative) impact in the data, which reveal household incomes to be…

Surprisingly large differences in household debt! What are the major contributors to these differences?

USA seems to be in the middle. Right next to Germany, which one might think more similar to the Nordic countries compared to US. Where as Canada is higher than Finland.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#365

Post by x87678r » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #284

black_knight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

> A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work?

That's for each child. I worked with a guy who had 5 kids and with sick leave and holidays he worked Its a good reason why Europe is disappearing as a economic force. OTOH The other reason is not enough children so maybe my coworker ended up helping the economy.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#366

Post by sushshshsh » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

>133 days of being paid to sit at home and take care of your kids, which most Americans do for free

Do Norwegians work, ever? How do Norwegian businesses make money?

You've heard that American businesses are failing left right and center. They can't even make a profit, and they don't pay their employees health insurance or vacation, let alone paternity/maternity.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#367

Post by bluedino » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #124

dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

It's not "structurally sexism", it's biology. Practically no women ever will make it through the entirety of a pregnancy without needing (not choosing) to take some time off work if she works a full-time job. Even if this is just a single day of delivery. Generally though, it's much more than a single day that needs to be taken off. In contrast, at no point in a woman's pregnancy does the father need to take time off…

I didn't think I would need more than 1 week off, but my wife needs a break from watching a newborn all day (and all night). I'm glad in a way that with COVID, I can stay home a day or two a week and it's not a big deal, and I'm also forced to take off 1 day per pay period.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#368

Post by parasight » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #257

sdfqasdghj wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Sweden and Germany do it. Actually Norwegian parental leave is not that generous by the standards of similar countries. There is one year total of leave shared between mother and father (or other mother).

Germany has a much more restrictive system though. 65% and a cap that pretty much anyone with a college degree will hit. So in reality you look at 30-50% for most people. Still nice, especially given the job guarantee, but very restrictive in who can take it if you have bills to pay.

In my experience the Elterngeld usually replaces one income in a double income family. Of course one will "loose" money if the cap hits, but hey its 1800 EUR per month for up to 14 months just for being a parent. I think it is awesome even if it is just 30% of your regular salary.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#369

Post by oblio » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #308

oblio wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Romania, bang average country (GDP per capita almost equal to world average), not even classified as a high income economy and with a GDP per capita 1/6th of the US one is currently offering up to 18 months of maternity leave at 80% pay. There is a paternity leave, I forgot how long, I think it's at least a few weeks if not months. If there's a will, there's a way. Oh, our external debt is about 40% and our tax rates…

And our collapsing public healthcare system. :P As my dad who still lives there told me, unless you know someone in the system or pay the doctors bribes or go to their private offices(because of course) they won't lift a finger to help you and just leave you sink in the healthcare bottomless pit of endless misery, bureaucracy and waiting lists where you keep being bounced around like a hot potato that nobody gives a…

That's on corruption, as you said. I doubt we don't have money for at least decent healthcare. I'm not talking Western standards, just:

- clean hospitals

- punctual appointments

- basic services covered

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#370

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

ptyyy wrote: post #339

pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

Around the start of August I finished up my 6 weeks here in the US and it was definitely not enough. 133+ days would have been nice, but here in Freedom-Land™ I was lucky to get the 6 weeks I was given. I know a few new dads who got no paternity leave from work, or 1-3 days. Absolutely ridiculous in this day and age.

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