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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#331

Post by D13Fd »

rapsey wrote: post #34

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower div…

You seem to have been down voted but I don't think you're totally off base.

I'm the father of 4 kids, currently aged 2 months - 5 years, and I took 1-2 weeks off for each one. I think that one week about what is really needed for fathers in baseline cases, although special cases (premature births, post-partum depression, health problems with the mother or child, etc) definitely need more.

The problem is that you can't really "bond" with a baby as a father (in a two-way sense). They don't realize you exist, and they don't really start to get to know you until some time later, maybe after 6 months.

I think longer leave probably makes sense for the first baby, because that is a big life adjustment and it's easier to handle when you don't have to worry about work. But for baby numbers 2+, I just don't see that longer leave is necessary in baseline cases. So I'm not sure it's right for the state to require that employers offer longer paid leave.

That said, generous parental leave policies are still a nice bonus for parents and can be a competitive edge for companies in hiring. My firm has offered 6 months' paid parental leave.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#332

Post by echelon »

AniseAbyss wrote: post #328
matsemann wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the government paying. Up to a fixed amount. But most high earners are in a position where the company will pay the difference as a perk. If it were companies having to pay, that would probably lead to some aversion about hiring people without children in the right age. But that's probably an aversion lots of companies in other countries have about women. "Will they have kids and leave the workforce soon?". I st…

Can confirm, social media is checked to make certain someone isn't pregnant or trying to get pregnant.

Are you serious? What sort of companies do this? And what do they look for?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#333

Post by alistairSH »

AniseAbyss wrote: post #326
pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

Most fathers wouldn't want 6 months leave. You would literally have to make it mandatory.

Source?

Anecdotally, my (US) employer started offering paternal leave a few years ago and most new fathers are using it. We allow it to be split, so many will do 2 weeks initially, then in 1-2 week chunks over the next several months.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#334

Post by dfxm12 »

bluesquared wrote: post #264

Here in "flyover country, USA" I was looked down upon for asking to use two weeks of my own PTO after my company's new 'generous' two week paid parental leave. That request was constantly pushed off until the week of my wife's induction, when it was formally declined. I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. I guess our menta…

I guess our mental health during a global pandemic isn't really of any concern to the bottom line.

I honestly wonder what effect one person taking off this time would have on the bottom line. If you are that critical to your company, you could probably negotiate for a higher salary. Otherwise, this is just callousness, which I guess is expected from unchecked capitalism.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#335

Post by mytailorisrich »

vortico wrote: post #309
mytailorisrich wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an additional tax in addition to income tax, but let's not get into French taxes... ;)

Why not get into the topic of taxes in a discussion of social security? :) They're the two sides of the same coin. There seems to be little discussion in here on the tax cost of this paternity leave law.

I only meant that the French tax system is complex.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#336

Post by D13Fd »

gnicholas wrote: post #79
rapsey wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the father is working that does not mean he is absent for the entire day and unavailable to help at all. > shop for groceries, prepare food Can be done at any time of the day (you know prepare and reheat later) and by any of the parents. Even if one of them is absent for 8 hours.

This is hilariously out of touch. Shopping for groceries with an infant (or an infant + toddler) is a challenge for a single parent. It is absurd to say that you can shop for groceries at any time of day — you have to go when the kids are not napping (ever have two kids on different nap schedules?) or nursing, and then you have to manage getting them into and out of car seats, shopping carts, etc. Your comments strik…

I think it depends on the kids. I have 4 kids under 6, and I've never had a problem shopping with any combination of them, especially as infants (although the most recent one, at 2 months old, has never been out due to COVID).

But I could definitely see it being a big problem if you happen to have kids who tend to cry in & around a shopping cart. I think it's just the luck of the draw.

I'm also not a single parent, although we always do the shopping trips solo.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#337

Post by D13Fd »

jahaja wrote: post #261
rapsey wrote: post #34

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower div…

Not sure why you're mixing things up so much. In Sweden both parents get two weeks leave from the birth of the child which is separate from the parental leave. Then usually the father go backs to work and let the mother take the first few months of parental leave, and then the father takes a few months after that.

That actually sounds like a great system. I think it makes more sense for the father to take time off a bit further in.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#338

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

dleslie wrote: post #55
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is smaller employers, which simply can't afford to shoulder the burden of paid maternity leave for 1 of their 10 employees. You can set up a graduated system like the UK has, where all employers have to pay and can reclaim a variable amount. But one way or another, any benefit the government won't foot the bill for is a benefit many parents won't get.

Canada provides EI to those on parental leave; the "top-up" is a common compensation perk that employers offer to women, and rarely to men.

Right, but the funding available for such a benefit is limited. If employers were required to offer the top-up to both men and women equally, I expect many companies on the smaller side would have to stop offering it to stay within their budget.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#339

Post by ptyyy »

pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

Around the start of August I finished up my 6 weeks here in the US and it was definitely not enough. 133+ days would have been nice, but here in Freedom-Land™ I was lucky to get the 6 weeks I was given. I know a few new dads who got no paternity leave from work, or 1-3 days. Absolutely ridiculous in this day and age.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#340

Post by purple_ferret »

>only three, California, New Jersey, and Rhode Island, grant paid leave)

This is false. New York has paid family leave which can be used by both parents for new borns. In 2021, you can get 12 weeks at 67% pay. [0]

It's interesting how uninformed people are about basic laws like this in the US. The author apparently lives in New York too.

[0]https://www.ny.gov/sites/ny.gov/files/atoms/files/PaidFamily...

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