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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#121

Post by vinay427 »

rasz wrote: post #111
souprock wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

The new "asian" Swedes are.

The fertility rate is about identical or even a little lower among Swedes with at least one foreign-born parent [1], although there is some difference for foreign-born Swedes [2].

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-fertility-rate-by-...

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2019/08/09/is-sweden-our...

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#122

Post by nachteilig »

woodpanel wrote: post #105
cluoma wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany also has quite generous parental leave. 14 months to split between parents as they see fit. But no single parent can take more than 12 and it's only 65%. 12 of the 14 months can be doubled as well, up to 24 months, at half the regular salary replacement. A good option if a parent wants to work part-time.

I can echo that. Still only 2% of men take the leave, while 42% of women do [1]. I can only speculate as to why. 1) Our cultural wiring runs deeper than just "sex is a social construct" 2) The German system is still quite complicated. As countless online calculators and private consultancies helping you filling out the forms prove. As well as the above statistic itself, since financially it would make more sense if t…

I don't really get your point here about point 2. If the father earns considerably more, then it would certainly result in less money coming into the household overall if he then takes more leave at 65% as opposed to no leave at 100%. Why would he do that?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#123

Post by skrause »

toxik wrote: post #98
Barrin92 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, fathers' increasing involvement in childcare led to higher labor force attachment among mothers. This may have raised the opportunity cost of an additional child. We also find that men reported lower desired fertility after the reform, possibly due to their increased awareness of the costs of childrearing, or to a shift in preferences from child quantity to quality. These honestly sound like good things to m…

Having children is more important to society than having workers. It is a grim fact that the calculus of life in almost any Western country is that you can have maybe one child, but better none, if you want to have a decent life. We are literally a dying breed, and on our way to extinction, we’re wholly unable to even have a conversation about the problem.

> We are literally a dying breed, and on our way to extinction

Yes, of course, humanity's biggest problem is currently that we're basically going extinct because we're not reproducing enough.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#124

Post by fastball »

dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

It's not "structurally sexism", it's biology.

Practically no women ever will make it through the entirety of a pregnancy without needing (not choosing) to take some time off work if she works a full-time job. Even if this is just a single day of delivery.

Generally though, it's much more than a single day that needs to be taken off. In contrast, at no point in a woman's pregnancy does the father need to take time off.

There is nothing sexist about this. It is more efficient to extend one person's required time off than it is to give two separate people time off. An extended maternity leave generally means that one company needs to find one replacement or otherwise shuffle work. Maternity + paternity leave means you need to do that, 2x.

I fully support longer paternity leaves because I do think it is important for having equality in the workplace. But the idea that it's society that is sexist in this regard is ridiculous.

Honestly I don't think we will really have equality until babies are grown in test tubes, and that's not society's fault.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#125

Post by dijit »

rasz wrote: post #111
souprock wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

The new "asian" Swedes are.

I take the point, but there is a lot of evidence that birth rates decline as safety increases (this includes financial safety).

Here is one study (of many): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337068662_Declined_...

Even in the UK (from where I come) it's only first generation migrants that have many children, the second generation seems to fall in line with the society. From my anecdotal experience.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#127

Post by KingOfCoders »

woodpanel wrote: post #105
cluoma wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany also has quite generous parental leave. 14 months to split between parents as they see fit. But no single parent can take more than 12 and it's only 65%. 12 of the 14 months can be doubled as well, up to 24 months, at half the regular salary replacement. A good option if a parent wants to work part-time.

I can echo that. Still only 2% of men take the leave, while 42% of women do [1]. I can only speculate as to why. 1) Our cultural wiring runs deeper than just "sex is a social construct" 2) The German system is still quite complicated. As countless online calculators and private consultancies helping you filling out the forms prove. As well as the above statistic itself, since financially it would make more sense if t…

Everyone of my friends (fathers) took this without exception. But it might depend on the salary level (all of them >$80k) perhaps.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#128

Post by [deleted] »

jariel wrote: post #64
markdown wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every worker deserves the same opportunity to spend time with their children. The government wouldn't be forcing any father to do anything. The government would be forcing companies to provide all workers the privilege of time off for parenting. A father who didn't want to bond with his children could use the time off to go fishing, take up woodworking, watch youtube videos, or work on a side-business.

Forcing them to step away from work is 100% 'forcing' them to do something. Enough with this, and the 'Swedish shaming' as noted above. People are offered leave, that's good, if they don't want to take it, it's none of anyone's business really.

[deleted]

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#129

Post by hawski »

woodpanel wrote: post #105
cluoma wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany also has quite generous parental leave. 14 months to split between parents as they see fit. But no single parent can take more than 12 and it's only 65%. 12 of the 14 months can be doubled as well, up to 24 months, at half the regular salary replacement. A good option if a parent wants to work part-time.

I can echo that. Still only 2% of men take the leave, while 42% of women do [1]. I can only speculate as to why. 1) Our cultural wiring runs deeper than just "sex is a social construct" 2) The German system is still quite complicated. As countless online calculators and private consultancies helping you filling out the forms prove. As well as the above statistic itself, since financially it would make more sense if t…

Regarding #2 - at least in Berlin a lady from Gesundheitsamt helped us fill the paperwork and it was one of the best experiences I had with any public servant.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#130

Post by gnicholas »

rapsey wrote: post #108
gnicholas wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I've read your comments carefully. I even read them to my wife, who had a good laugh. This latest comment tries to reframe the grocery shopping bit to involve both parents, but this isn't what you originally said. You said a parent can go grocery shopping anytime, but now you're saying they can do it anytime after the other parent is home and watching the kids. That's a pretty big difference. Also, after dad gets…

> You said a parent can go grocery shopping anytime And what I meant was they have the freedom to go anytime. Obviously the most optimal time is when both parents are available and at home. > Also, after dad gets home, then it's time for dinner, bath, and bedtime If you have that little time after work, then that is an entirely different issue.

> If you have that little time after work, then that is an entirely different issue.

Little kids eat dinner super early because of bedtime. We eat dinner at 5:30 these days. I don't know anyone who gets home from work much before then.

> And what I meant was they have the freedom to go anytime.

Yeah, if you don't mind waking up your napping baby or toddler, sure you can go anytime.

I try to give comments the benefit of the doubt, but I'm done with these shape-shifting arguments. Have a good one!

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