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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#91

Post by cluoma »

car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

Germany also has quite generous parental leave. 14 months to split between parents as they see fit. But no single parent can take more than 12 and it's only 65%.

12 of the 14 months can be doubled as well, up to 24 months, at half the regular salary replacement. A good option if a parent wants to work part-time.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#92

Post by didibus »

jariel wrote: post #64
markdown wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every worker deserves the same opportunity to spend time with their children. The government wouldn't be forcing any father to do anything. The government would be forcing companies to provide all workers the privilege of time off for parenting. A father who didn't want to bond with his children could use the time off to go fishing, take up woodworking, watch youtube videos, or work on a side-business.

Forcing them to step away from work is 100% 'forcing' them to do something. Enough with this, and the 'Swedish shaming' as noted above. People are offered leave, that's good, if they don't want to take it, it's none of anyone's business really.

> People are offered leave, that's good, if they don't want to take it, it's none of anyone's business really

Hum... wouldn't that depend on why you're not taking them?

Say you're not taking them because of social pressure?

Say you don't want to take them because doing so will put you up for promotion before your co-workers who do?

Say you don't want to take them because it result in a loss of money (if say employer offers reduced pay only)

And maybe others. But I feel some of those reasons call for further discussion. Like, it shouldn't be that you don't take them due to social pressure, lower pay, or to get ahead. None of these seem equally fair to all employees.

If you really just really were someone whose favourite thing to do is go to work day in, day out, then ok sure. It be hard to argue against that, but like... really?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#93

Post by gnicholas »

rapsey wrote: post #83
gnicholas wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilariously out of touch. Shopping for groceries with an infant (or an infant + toddler) is a challenge for a single parent. It is absurd to say that you can shop for groceries at any time of day — you have to go when the kids are not napping (ever have two kids on different nap schedules?) or nursing, and then you have to manage getting them into and out of car seats, shopping carts, etc. Your comments strik…

Are you only reading the first few words of my sentences or something. One parent is with the kids, the other goes shopping. Same for cooking. Both of these activities can be completed once the other parent comes back from work. Just because one person works does not mean they are completely unavailable to help in any way.

No, I've read your comments carefully. I even read them to my wife, who had a good laugh. This latest comment tries to reframe the grocery shopping bit to involve both parents, but this isn't what you originally said. You said a parent can go grocery shopping anytime, but now you're saying they can do it anytime after the other parent is home and watching the kids. That's a pretty big difference.

Also, after dad gets home, then it's time for dinner, bath, and bedtime. Mom could run off to the grocery at dinnertime, but most families try to have meals together so that's not a great option. And mom has to be home at bedtime, at least if she is nursing.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#94

Post by rapsey »

pencilcode wrote: post #86
rapsey wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be politically correct. But the vast majority of women prefer prioritizing their children over their careers. The vast majority of men prefer being the provider for their families. > Unfortunately, it's hard to force men to take their leave How about we don't force people into things.

Men should be given the opportunity to bond very early on with their kids too. Being there as a father.

An infant needs his mother fully. A father has plenty of time to bond. This kind of social engineering is entirely unnecessary.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#95

Post by onion2k »

WalterBright wrote: post #11
lotsofpulp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s zero in all but ~10 US states if your employer has fewer than 50 employees. And even then, the leave is unpaid.

> the leave is unpaid All employer-paid employee benefits ultimately come with a reduction in salary. The reason is simple - companies do not look at your salary when deciding if it is worth hiring you. They look at total compensation (salary + benefits). The larger the benefits, the lower the salary. Me, I prefer minimal benefits and maximal salary.

Chances are that if your employer isn't willing or able to pay for benefits they're also not willing or able to pay for a maximal salary though. You're probably just missing out on benefits rather than being paid the value of them. The companies shareholders and owners make more profit though, so if you're getting compensation in stock you are benefitting indirectly.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#96

Post by gnicholas »

sveme wrote: post #41
buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before people think that this policy is all roses, a close friend of mine is the CEO of a multi billion dollar international business. They don’t hire anyone from France because the French government makes it so difficult to fire a bad hire. Maybe you could argue that the French are better off without them, but people love working for them and they have great pay and benefits. I’m sure there are a number of companies…

People aren‘t paid by companies during parental leave, so I call bullshit here. And hiring laws aren‘t determined by the employee‘s nationality.

> And hiring laws aren‘t determined by the employee‘s nationality.

Hiring laws aren't, but firing laws are. When I worked as a corporate lawyer, we had lawyers who specialized in knowing the employment laws in various countries and advising companies on the process for exiting, the cost for doing so, etc.

I'd also disagree that people aren't paid by companies during parental leave. They are often topped-up by companies. This was the case at the law firm where I worked, and at the R1 university my wife works for. I'm sure it is also the case at FAANG, which have generous corporate leave policies.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#97

Post by ido »

fileeditview wrote: post #80
tjs8rj wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I don't want 12 kids, but my mindset changes if enough kids means early retirement ;)

I don't think you can relax a lot and enjoy retirement with 12 kids at home ;) This sounds like hard work to me..

With that many kids the older ones are probably helping raise the younger. My wife's cousin has 5 kids (in relatively short intervals, I think there's less than 10 years between the oldest and youngest) & the 2 oldest ones help out a lot.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#98

Post by toxik »

Barrin92 wrote: post #8
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

Spain found that parental leave resulted in fewer children. Ha. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...

> First, fathers' increasing involvement in childcare led to higher labor force attachment among mothers. This may have raised the opportunity cost of an additional child. We also find that men reported lower desired fertility after the reform, possibly due to their increased awareness of the costs of childrearing, or to a shift in preferences from child quantity to quality. These honestly sound like good things to m…

Having children is more important to society than having workers. It is a grim fact that the calculus of life in almost any Western country is that you can have maybe one child, but better none, if you want to have a decent life.

We are literally a dying breed, and on our way to extinction, we’re wholly unable to even have a conversation about the problem.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#99

Post by onion2k »

rapsey wrote: post #59
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a totally different story with 2 or more children. Your toddler won’t be quite as accommodating to the schedule of a newborn. Having two parents at home makes it much easier to manage a newborn, erratic sleep schedules, and other children.

That is if the older child is not in kindergarden.

That's 5 or 6 hours a day for 5 days a week. Do you think toddlers just look after themselves for the rest of the time?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#100

Post by timc3 »

souprock wrote: post #29
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

I am a Swede - there is no way that I want 12 kids. From both a personal point of view, and for the environmental reasons (though I get it if you are adopting).
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