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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

reuters.com

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#251

Post by undersuit »

otterley wrote: post #231
dilap wrote: post #126

It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks. Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government. Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the…

China censors the Internet to prevent public information from getting in. The US Government is attempting to restrict the activities of certain Chinese companies to prevent private information from getting out.

>The US Government is attempting to restrict the activities of certain Chinese companies to prevent private information from getting out.

OK so one country... mildly contained. Now finish the job and do the other 193 countries.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#252

Post by djsumdog »

dilap wrote: post #202
bo1024 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note there is a difference between saying one thinks TikTok is a national security threat to the USA, and saying one thinks the U.S. government should ban it (or so on). It's tempting to base your opinion of whether TikTok is a threat on how much you (dis)like authoritarian responses, but that's a logical fallacy.

That's fair. Imagine, for example, an extremely convincing book is authored that convinces anyone that reads it that the United States government should disolve itself and its citizens should pledge fealty to China. Quite credibly, the book could be described a national security threat to the US. However, I would still argue that the book should not be banned, and that any country that wants to honestly describe itse…

I think the it's a bit different to compare the medium of a book. It's a one directional medium with ideas. In America, we treasure speech and don't fear ideas.

But in a two directional medium, that allows an entity to soak up information .. well that's already a problem in the US. Europe saw it as so much of an issue they implemented GDPR (for better or worse) and California has similar legislation.

Information is way different, and we've already seen cases where TikTok has been caught reading clipboards (could just be to scan for tiktok links, but it could have also been harvesting additional data).

The US does not allow certain things to be imported/exported to other nations. We've seen that for decades with Cuba and various other embargo. If you get a book from an embargoed country, it's not illegal to have to distribute it (granted it doesn't contain illegal/obscene content). The Federal government can legislate foreign commerce.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#253

Post by djsumdog »

ausjke wrote: post #32

It's a national security issue. Plus, if you sue the government order from any courts in CA, you will win anyways these days. CA is too liberal to remain in US, I remember they were saying CA-Independence from USA after 2016, I can't wait to support it, but those people somehow did not proceed, very disappointed.

Most Americans still believe in America. Despite what the rage media would tell us, most Americas still have a national identity.

Support for succession of any state is very low. California is also two states. The West coast is super left, yes, but as you move east, it's all very right leaning/republicans. Republicans and also meth .. lots of meth, and desert.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#254

Post by djsumdog »

mullingitover wrote: post #52
ausjke wrote: post #32

It's a national security issue. Plus, if you sue the government order from any courts in CA, you will win anyways these days. CA is too liberal to remain in US, I remember they were saying CA-Independence from USA after 2016, I can't wait to support it, but those people somehow did not proceed, very disappointed.

> CA is too liberal to remain in US The problem with this is that if the liberal states are allowed out of the union, the conservative states will run out of other people's money to spend.

You do realize that Texas is a mostly right/republican state that also gives back to the Federal Government more money than it takes in, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S92fTz_-kQE

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#255

Post by IncRnd »

judge2020 wrote: post #88
revnode wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shutting down a company It's not a company. It's a division of a foreign government. That was the point being made. If it was an independent company, none of this would be happening.

https://www.bytedance.com/en/#corporate-structure ByteDance Ltd. (Cayman) -> TikTok Ltd. (Cayman) -> TikTok LLC. (US) Legally it is indeed a company and not controlled by the CCP, but exactly how much of its US operations are conducted and directed by non-US citizens on non-US soil is unknown.

Companies will regularly incorporate in low-tax jurisdictions, but that doesn't exactly make them headquartered in those areas, where they may actually do zero business. ByteDance Ltd. is a Chinese multinational internet technology company headquartered in Beijing. It was founded by Zhang Yiming in 2012. [1]

TikTok's parent company ByteDance has sought permission from the Chinese government to export technology, Bloomberg reported Wednesday. ByteDance filed a request with the Beijing Municipal Commerce Bureau asking for approval to export its technology under restrictions recently implemented by the Chinese government, according to Bloomberg. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ByteDance

[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/bytedance-seeks-china-govern...

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#256

Post by mantap »

peacefulhat wrote: post #181
dilap wrote: post #126

It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks. Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government. Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the…

I can understand this attitude in the general public but it’s completely bizarre from HN engineers. Expect more more optimism for FBI/NSA backdoors in encryption next.

It's only bizarre if you consider ByteDance as some plucky startup that is being repressed by USA. If you consider it to be under the thumb of the Chinese state then blocking it seems to be the best action to preserve free speech.

Will TikTok remove Chinese propaganda on their platform, how would that conversation even go at their offices? Can we trust that TikTok will not in future censor things that China finds uncomfortable such as Taiwan being an independent country?

Just a few months ago HN was getting exercised about the rights of Hong Kongers. I'd say it is wholly consistent with the political beliefs of the average HNer to want to see a social network operating from within an autocratic state to be banned from operating, or at least under heavy scrutiny.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#257

Post by emptysongglass »

Talanes wrote: post #243
wbillingsley wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising. It is a reasonable assumption that the CCP, which has expressed ideological opposition to the spread of democracy, will not be using information it gathers on US or European citizens in order to defend or promote democratic rights and freedoms globally. It's a reasonable assumption that western governments, who do have an ideological intention of spreading democracy and western-style freedom…

I'm way more afraid of the US Government than the CCP. They're actually relevant to my life, beyond a vague "politics affects us all" kind of way. I'm more afraid of the guy holding a stick over my head than the guy a mile away, no matter what that dude is up to.

The problem with an autocracy is that they will not cease until any threat to their existence can be stamped out or controlled. Nations continued to hope Nazi Germany would just stop its expansion and placate Hitler until it was clear he had no intention of stopping.

Last week it was discovered that an additional half a million Tibetans [1] were sent to join the Uighurs in labor camps. When do the democracies of the world say enough is enough? These are vast numbers of human lives being cast into the inferno because they aren't Han Chinese.

[1] https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/china-forces-500-000-tibet...

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#258

Post by tathougies »

Talanes wrote: post #243
wbillingsley wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising. It is a reasonable assumption that the CCP, which has expressed ideological opposition to the spread of democracy, will not be using information it gathers on US or European citizens in order to defend or promote democratic rights and freedoms globally. It's a reasonable assumption that western governments, who do have an ideological intention of spreading democracy and western-style freedom…

I'm way more afraid of the US Government than the CCP. They're actually relevant to my life, beyond a vague "politics affects us all" kind of way. I'm more afraid of the guy holding a stick over my head than the guy a mile away, no matter what that dude is up to.

Good news is that under the current administration the usa has heavily reduced it's foreign presence

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#259

Post by tmp538394722 »

mantap wrote: post #256
peacefulhat wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand this attitude in the general public but it’s completely bizarre from HN engineers. Expect more more optimism for FBI/NSA backdoors in encryption next.

It's only bizarre if you consider ByteDance as some plucky startup that is being repressed by USA. If you consider it to be under the thumb of the Chinese state then blocking it seems to be the best action to preserve free speech. Will TikTok remove Chinese propaganda on their platform, how would that conversation even go at their offices? Can we trust that TikTok will not in future censor things that China finds unc…

And would it be equally “pro free speech” if the US went down the road of preventing we citizens from accessing propaganda websites affiliated with the CCP?

And ban “bad” propaganda movies and media from the CCP?

And ban direct conversation with known “bad actors” in the CCP?

This sounds like a really slippery slope to me.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#260

Post by [deleted] »

Talanes wrote: post #243
wbillingsley wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising. It is a reasonable assumption that the CCP, which has expressed ideological opposition to the spread of democracy, will not be using information it gathers on US or European citizens in order to defend or promote democratic rights and freedoms globally. It's a reasonable assumption that western governments, who do have an ideological intention of spreading democracy and western-style freedom…

I'm way more afraid of the US Government than the CCP. They're actually relevant to my life, beyond a vague "politics affects us all" kind of way. I'm more afraid of the guy holding a stick over my head than the guy a mile away, no matter what that dude is up to.

[deleted]
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