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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

reuters.com

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#201

Post by heroprotagonist »

libraryatnight wrote: post #42
schoolornot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the national security risk with TikTok?

Propaganda. You don't have to bother making troll farm accounts to spread misinformation and sow doubt when you control the platform and can create and drip content you want into peoples feeds, and you know what they like, you're already serving them an addictive stream of content based on their behaviors.

Look how that turned out with Fox News.

We gave an Australian US citizenship so he could get past the limit on foreign ownership of TV stations. He jumped right into bed with US political parties and has a chokehold on one of them by building itself, intentionally, as its media arm.

That said, I think the internet should be free for the most part. If we have to kick them out of the country and deprive them our markets then this should be done by law instead of by authoritarian decree. Google and Apple already have rules against apps that violate laws.

We had these laws and watered them down before because it would benefit a particular political party by putting an influence empire behind it. We just need to update and modernize the laws. Define specific things that are allowed and not allowed.

EG, GDPR-like privacy rules about not sending user data to Asia, with stiff penalties. Restrictions against allowing investment from individual and corporations (and subsidiaries) on a specific watch list, along with defined criteria for getting on that list. EG, Tencent's contending years ago to become the social credit provider for China to help manipulate populace behavior. I'd consider that a human right violation worthy of entry to a list after careful review.

Maybe if we had such things in place, the FBI wouldn't have had to wander around to all of the major US businesses a year or two ago, quietly begging them not to use Kaspersky because it was potentially sending data to Russia. They would either have not been on an approved vendor list due to their sanctions or they could provide sufficient evidence to get them on the list and then demand removal instead of beg for companies to do it voluntarily.

And if strengthening these laws means kicking out Fox News as well, so be it.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#202

Post by dilap »

bo1024 wrote: post #197
dilap wrote: post #126

It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks. Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government. Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the…

Note there is a difference between saying one thinks TikTok is a national security threat to the USA, and saying one thinks the U.S. government should ban it (or so on). It's tempting to base your opinion of whether TikTok is a threat on how much you (dis)like authoritarian responses, but that's a logical fallacy.

That's fair.

Imagine, for example, an extremely convincing book is authored that convinces anyone that reads it that the United States government should disolve itself and its citizens should pledge fealty to China.

Quite credibly, the book could be described a national security threat to the US.

However, I would still argue that the book should not be banned, and that any country that wants to honestly describe itself as "free" could not ban the book.

Being a free country means giving citizens the right to engage with ideas that might not be aligned w/ the interests of its government.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#203

Post by MetalGuru »

People claiming this isn’t a Chinese company (“it’s incorporated in the Caymans! Hurrdurrr”) are either misinformed or not being honest.

From the Wikipedia link for ByteDance:

> ByteDance's first app, Neihan Duanzi, was shut down in 2018 by the National Radio and Television Administration. In response, Zhang issued an apology stating that the app was "incommensurate with socialist core values", that it had a "weak" implementation of Xi Jinping Thought, and promised that ByteDance would "further deepen cooperation" with the ruling Chinese Communist Party to better promote its policies.[7][8][9]

> It has garnered public attention over allegations that it worked with the Chinese Communist Party to censor and surveil content pertaining to Xinjiang re-education camps and other topics the Party deemed controversial.[18][19][20]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ByteDance

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#204

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

nostromo wrote: post #194
dilap wrote: post #126

It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks. Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government. Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the…

It'd be better if Chinese companies could freely operate in the American market and American companies could freely operate in the Chinese market. But China blocks American companies from their market, or extracts unfair concessions from them. So the US should do the same until they change their practices. It's similar to how countries that want peace still need militaries -- that isn't a contradiction because milita…

> But China blocks American companies from their market, or extracts unfair concessions from them. So the US should do the same until they change their practices.

Maybe that is true. I'm not sure. But if this is the real reason and national security is a fig leaf, then it is contrary to the rule of law and the constitution.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#205

Post by howlgarnish »

MetalGuru wrote: post #193
howlgarnish wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US companies operating in China need to follow Chinese laws, including those on censorship. Google etc are blocked because they are hosted outside China, and are not willing to cooperate in China. What I find bizarre about the Tiktok ban is that they are being banned essentially on executive whim: as far as I can tell, there are no concrete allegations, much less evidence, that they're violating any US laws.

Do you honestly believe that geopolitics don’t play a role in China banning US tech companies? You think China would allow Google if it censored search results?

Of course they play a role, and those same Chinese laws also dictate that any foreign IT company needs to have a local partner. But in the unlikely event of Google agreeing to a JV that cedes enough power to a local company, then sure, why not? That's how eg. AWS China operates: https://www.amazonaws.cn/en/about-aws/china/

FWIW, Google already has a substantial presence in China, but they don't target consumers there.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#206

Post by asou »

Spivak wrote: post #48
asou wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Shut em all down ! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook–Cambridge_Analytica... https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/09/ftc-s... https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/03/599069424... If you can't give a shit about the security of your user's personal information / safety , you shouldn't exist.

I agree with the activist spirit! But you have to realize that the incentives of legislators are to first create a strong economy and to maintain the dominance of the US tech sector. If you come to them with a plan that will seriously harm their operations then you won’t even get a meeting.

I'm dreaming here, no regulation will take place.

You need to self regulate though and assume all data you give these companies will be sold. At this point unless it's ride sharing , apps don't get my location. If they means I can't use the apps, that's fine.

It wouldn't be the worst thing if tommorow Social Media was effectively banned. It's done enough wrong in the world

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#207

Post by Drew_ »

MereInterest wrote: post #61
marsrover wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targeted advertising is a major reason for the Internet’s success. It has allowed many companies to become extremely wealthy and invest back into the ecosystem.

Targeted advertising on the internet as a general practice did not start until the mid to late aughts, long after the internet was a success. Targeted advertising is not a reason for the Internet's success.

The internet in the mid to late aughts is not considered a success by today's standards.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#208

Post by YarickR2 »

warbaker wrote: post #186
sudosysgen wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there actually real limits on government in the US? If the Democrats and Republicans agreed that they wanted to do something, would anything stop them? The US government is already unconstitutionally doing what you say that judicial review prevents, and the partisan (by design) Supreme Court simply refuses to take the case. So much for judicial review. There is no check for power, only balances of power. And powe…

Are you seriously equating the two govts? Consider that, because hackernews/YC is a US company, your post is read by everyone who cares to see it. Consider what would happen if you decried the powers of the CCP on a China-based platform. Consider what would happen to you, personally, if you did so while living in China.

And what would happen, then ? Any specific examples of such things happening ?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#209

Post by unishark »

arcticbull wrote: post #147
rtx wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>open for business With those who are open for business.

That's not really a compelling counterargument. The idea is that goods and services brought to market in the US are materially improving the lives of Americans. It doesn't matter really what the home state looks like. If it did, Americans would have never started importing Saudi oil. Or Rwandan tantalum for capacitors. Or Nestle chocolate, which is farmed by child slaves in the Ivory Coast. But don't worry, in 2019,…

There are literally thousands of regulations limiting what we can import into the US, from drugs to protected wildlife to cuban cigars, including total embargos on particular companies and even countries. You're just cherry-picking of a few you want but don't see.

And by the way, the US govt certainly pushes for free trade, but that actually means implementation on a bilateral country-by-country basis (a couple dozen countries or so by now). The public is certainly never going to go for unilateral free trade with anyone who wants to sell anything. I'm sure that's true for almost every country.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#210

Post by YarickR2 »

bravo22 wrote: post #39
mike503 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ll know all the social media patterns and likes of 14 year olds!

Or they can push narratives and stories to manipulate their audience? If the main search engine in a country was controlled by a foreign entity that would be cause for concern.

Like.. IDK...Google ?
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