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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#351

Post by everfree »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #327
manigandham wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.

I assume a device's security is improved by being hampering the ability to install software. Can I rely on an Android device to not be tampered with or have malware just as much as I can an iOS device? I don't mean secure as in the NSA can't break into it. I mean secure as in normal people can't mess it up clicking bullshit links in WhatsApp messages.

Android has an "allow software from unknown sources" option buried in the settings menu. As long as you don't specifically go looking for that option and THEN approve the source of the .apk file and THEN click install on the system dialog, you can't accidentally install non-play-store software.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#352

Post by spideymans »

echelon wrote: post #251
temp667 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "bad behavior"? Are you joking. You realize people pay apple EXTRA because they value their product? Their product holds its value far LONGER on the secondary market because it is maintained so well? You can get unlocked android phones and install whatever you want. But the reality for our parents / grandparents etc is that the folks who want to have root on their device want to scam them, auto bill them with non…

> Go use another phone if you don't like it. Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. Even if there wasn't a tax, the lack of freedom is what really gets me. Apple built itself atop open source. They leveraged it to gain control over 40% of the CPUs used by consumers. Now we can't run code for these people. I applaud their privacy stance. But free…

> Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in.

A big part of the reason why I bought an iPhone is the App Store. That’s because the App Store imposes rules on software developers, such as Facebook, which have consistently proven that they don’t particularly care about privacy, security or other user-centric concerns. If I felt like I could trust these developers, maybe I wouldn’t be on an iPhone. But they haven’t earned my trust.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#353

Post by jpambrun »

sosborn wrote: post #250
jpambrun wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing other stores doesn't mean you have to use them. You could still have your curated experience on the Apple store. Why do you want to impose your views on others?

You don't have to use Apple. You could still have your non-curated experience with Android. Why do you want to impose your view on others?

That's dishonest. The situation is identical on Android. Yes. You can "technically" sideload apps, but there is so many hoops to go through that you really can't distribute your application this way.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#354

Post by sushid »

danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

I'm guessing you don't have a CPG background. It's a horribly flawed analogy as retailer can and will demand special SKUs, kick brands off of aisle all the time, demand premiums for shelving units, etc.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#355

Post by Aissen »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #72
Aissen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the cookie popup blocked by UBO preventing scrolling. Irony: you can't read the cookie policy without accepting it first.

The "Cookie Policy" text on that element links to it.

Yes, and then the page has the exact same overlay and scroll prevention, preventing reading the full policy (and obscuring the top of the page).

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#356

Post by hrktb »

munificent wrote: post #315
dgellow wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I learned from past experiences is to never use analogies. They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. Also it often only makes sense in the mind of the author...

> They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. My experience is that this is very true among a certain group of people, particularly literal-minded software enngineer types. But it is much less true in the general population where a single good analogy can accomplish more than pages of…

> a single good analogy can accomplish more than pages of prose

I think that's where the danger lies. In the end we are not explaining much, just passing a vision of the issue in terms of good/bad/meh depending on the analogy we choose.

That's also how we convince people a lot of stuff is just "against freedom", or "big acting selfishly" etc.

As you say it accomplishes something, people take a position very quickly. But is it a good thing ? I'm torn.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#357

Post by spideymans »

manigandham wrote: post #312
lotsofpulp wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I d…

Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.

Yeah until Facebook moves all their apps to their own App Store so they don’t have to deal with all of Apple’s pesky privacy rules.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#358

Post by christopherwxyz »

sithlord wrote: post #284
christopherwxyz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t charge itself a 30% fee when it competes with other developers for the same paying users.

And you dont charge yourself what the lawn companies charge you to cut your yard. I don't really get your point.

Your example is faulty. No one pays you to cut your own lawn.

People pay Apple to listen to Apple Music.

People pay Apple to watch TV+.

Other competitors have to pay 30% for every customer before they can even compete with their own product.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#359

Post by plandis »

izacus wrote: post #116
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

Interesting how there's so many posts here attacking the companies behind the action (ad hominem style) by specifying actions that have nothing to do with the abuses Apple and AppStore do. Is this targeted?

You don’t think it’s valid to critique the bad actions that the App Store generally protects (non tech savvy) consumers from?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#360

Post by matsemann »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #311
m_ke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They control almost 70% of mobile app revenue: https://swagsoft.com.sg/blog/android-vs-ios-which-platform-t... . A service like netflix, spotify or basecamp can't compete without an iOS app.

Yep. And why are iOS users more willing to pay for mobile apps than Android users? Because they know that Apple keeps app vendors on a short leash. Apple has a monopoly on non-shit smartphones precisely because of their restrictive policies.

Or maybe the reason iOS users spend more is because iOS users generally have more spendable money? As signaled by them having bought an expensive device.
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