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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#321

Post by belltaco »

nemothekid wrote: post #273
echelon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective makes me sad. I'm honestly depressed because people rush to defend bad behavior of their favorite monopoly. Like, physically holding back tears. Serious. What is wrong with us? Our computers and technology have been locked down by anti-competitive juggernauts. Our legislators have written laws that cede more of our liberties and privacy. This modern internet sucks so much and I want to go back to whe…

> I'm honestly depressed because people rush to defend bad behavior of their favorite monopoly. While techies lived in their utopia, the rest of us without the ability to compile from source were tricked into downloading spyware, profiled, and scammed from dubious "developers". These problems were known, but nothing was done about them in the name of "developer freedom". A company comes along and offers the vast majo…

What does blocking XCloud and Stadia have to do with security and privacy? Many of the policies are about money while destroying developer freedom.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#322

Post by electriclove »

echelon wrote: post #275
ilikehurdles wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic and Spotify.

The downvotes for your parent and your follow-up retort don't make sense. I'm also backing these companies' argument and I don't want a walled garden. I want an open and competitive marketplace. I want to be able to distribute my software to everyone (like I used to be able to do).

Are you not able to distribute your software to iOS devices?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#323

Post by realusername »

zepto wrote: post #308
realusername wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because of the market lock-in and power of both companies, you can't use any of the Apple stack and Android without the Play Store is a commercial death sentence.

Why is it a death sentence not to have the play store? I don’t see why Epic couldn’t create their own gaming focussed device, and buy a bunch of exclusive titles including their own content. If their store had better terms than Play, and accepted APKs, why wouldn’t other developers want to sell through it? If the argument is that developers are desperate for better terms, it must follow that they would want to suppor…

> Why is it a death sentence not to have the play store?

Because of network effects, consumers just don't want a phone without their banking apps.

Epic tried to make a deal like you suggest with OnePlus and LG but it was cancelled due to Google pressure.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#324

Post by actuator »

nicetryguy wrote: post #75

I'm surprised at all of the negativity here. The changes proposed would be great for developers, even if (most) of the companies involved are shady, their reasons are selfish, and the obvious "astroturfiness" of the website is laughably dissonant and reeks like a dirty think tank that hasn't been cleaned in months. Apple has no qualms about absolutely screwing developers historically. I'm happy to see some pushback.

I have also been really surprised with the whole debate on this saga here. For developers, this looks like such a no brainer because they should personally relate to what these companies are asking for.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#325

Post by AlexandrB »

stefano wrote: post #249
DevKoala wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? As a developer it sounds like a nightmare, but as a costumer, I like it. It makes for a great experience.

Because it's as far as you can go from being a "Hacker".

As a signifier of technological anti-establishment thinking I think that label is pretty meaningless at this point.

Most of the "Hackers" of my generation grew up to either vacuum up user data without their consent, micro-target advertising (including political propaganda), or fund those that do the above two things.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#326

Post by bonestamp2 »

echelon wrote: post #167
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

Your perspective makes me sad. I'm honestly depressed because people rush to defend bad behavior of their favorite monopoly. Like, physically holding back tears. Serious. What is wrong with us? Our computers and technology have been locked down by anti-competitive juggernauts. Our legislators have written laws that cede more of our liberties and privacy. This modern internet sucks so much and I want to go back to whe…

> I want a world where we're free to install whatever we want on our devices

We all have different opinions, so we're never going to get everything in this world to adhere to the same ideals. If you don't like Apple's approach as a consumer, use Android. Some of us like that Apple locks things down very tightly and want it to remain. It's not a perfect solution, but neither is Google's approach, so it's nice that there are two very different options.

> or distribute our hard work to others without having to implement it 5 different ways.

Even if Apple allows sideloading, this problem will still exist.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#327

Post by lotsofpulp »

manigandham wrote: post #312
lotsofpulp wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I d…

Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.

I assume a device's security is improved by being hampering the ability to install software. Can I rely on an Android device to not be tampered with or have malware just as much as I can an iOS device?

I don't mean secure as in the NSA can't break into it. I mean secure as in normal people can't mess it up clicking bullshit links in WhatsApp messages.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#328

Post by brendoelfrendo »

munificent wrote: post #315
dgellow wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I learned from past experiences is to never use analogies. They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. Also it often only makes sense in the mind of the author...

> They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. My experience is that this is very true among a certain group of people, particularly literal-minded software enngineer types. But it is much less true in the general population where a single good analogy can accomplish more than pages of…

See: further down this thread where literal-minded software engineers all try to "fix" this analogy but can't agree on how.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#329

Post by clansimus »

nicetryguy wrote: post #75

I'm surprised at all of the negativity here. The changes proposed would be great for developers, even if (most) of the companies involved are shady, their reasons are selfish, and the obvious "astroturfiness" of the website is laughably dissonant and reeks like a dirty think tank that hasn't been cleaned in months. Apple has no qualms about absolutely screwing developers historically. I'm happy to see some pushback.

Because "great for developers" just shouldn't matter. It should be about what the consumers want.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#330

Post by kickopotomus »

fhood wrote: post #166
izacus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting how there's so many posts here attacking the companies behind the action (ad hominem style) by specifying actions that have nothing to do with the abuses Apple and AppStore do. Is this targeted?

Not trying to take a side here, but Epic especially is not the company I want leading the charge here. I am vehemently opposed to their (and Tencent's) primary business model. Edit: It isn't like there aren't policies that Apple has in place that should be pushed back against. But, Epic seems to have zero qualms about targeting children misleading and manipulative in game transactions, and I think that Epic having th…

If you don't like Epic, then aren't they exactly who you want to take part in what will likely be a long and economically painful legal battle?

I'm not a fan either but indie developers don't have the resources necessary to take Apple to court and win.

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