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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#311

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

m_ke wrote: post #33
layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not have a monopoly on phones. Not even smartphones.

They control almost 70% of mobile app revenue: https://swagsoft.com.sg/blog/android-vs-ios-which-platform-t... . A service like netflix, spotify or basecamp can't compete without an iOS app.

Yep. And why are iOS users more willing to pay for mobile apps than Android users? Because they know that Apple keeps app vendors on a short leash.

Apple has a monopoly on non-shit smartphones precisely because of their restrictive policies.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#312

Post by manigandham »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #278
echelon wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go use another phone if you don't like it. Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. Even if there wasn't a tax, the lack of freedom is what really gets me. Apple built itself atop open source. They leveraged it to gain control over 40% of the CPUs used by consumers. Now we can't run code for these people. I applaud their privacy stance. But free…

My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I d…

Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#313

Post by belltaco »

bad_user wrote: post #293
echelon wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go use another phone if you don't like it. Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. Even if there wasn't a tax, the lack of freedom is what really gets me. Apple built itself atop open source. They leveraged it to gain control over 40% of the CPUs used by consumers. Now we can't run code for these people. I applaud their privacy stance. But free…

> But freedom to run software is a separate issue. It isn't, because it's tied to security. I don't understand why a company, like Apple, shouldn't be allowed to create locked-down devices. This practice isn't new either. Locked down game consoles have existed since the dawn of computing. What makes this situation special? Don't like it, then don't buy it. Speaking of the situation at hand, Epic did in fact distribut…

Can you explain what blocking services like XCloud and Stadia has to do with security or privacy? Many of the policies are about a pure money grab.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#314

Post by throwaway17_17 »

emptysongglass wrote: post #55
dimitrios1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling a company that has ~13% of the market share in mobile devices is quite the take. It will never hold up in court.

At least in the US, this figure is closer to half. The point is not the market share they control but that they also control and set the rates to the marketplace within. To quote Senator Warren: >If you run a platform where others come to sell, then you don’t get to sell your own items on the platform because you have two comparative advantages. One, you’ve sucked up information about every buyer and every seller bef…

This quote from Warren is completely divorced from the current legal reality in the US. Using her definitions it would be impossible for retail stores to have store brands, and then there would be a question about whether stores that only sell their brands are allowed as well. Clearly, since Walmart, Costco, Dillards, etc can have store brands and can pick and choose what items to sell at retail, I don’t see how her quote can be taken as anything other than a hypothetical policy position.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#315

Post by munificent »

dgellow wrote: post #296
danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

What I learned from past experiences is to never use analogies. They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. Also it often only makes sense in the mind of the author...

> They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive.

My experience is that this is very true among a certain group of people, particularly literal-minded software enngineer types. But it is much less true in the general population where a single good analogy can accomplish more than pages of prose.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#316

Post by disposekinetics »

ksk wrote: post #151
koheripbal wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be hard pressed to find a company that is popular and doesnt have accusations, haters, and lawsuits for something or other. It's part of running a complex large business.

Anything you disagree with here? https://appfairness.org/our-vision/

#6, I love how little Apple allows companies to contact me.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#317

Post by curiousllama »

dgellow wrote: post #296
danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

What I learned from past experiences is to never use analogies. They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. Also it often only makes sense in the mind of the author...

Analogies can be powerful if told well. It just so happens that they're hard to tell well.

Source: Cheerios

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#318

Post by lotsofpulp »

OCASM wrote: post #303
lotsofpulp wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I d…

Is the macOS ecosystem filled with malware?

I don't know what you mean by filled, but I know malware exists for macOS. I am not aware of malware for iOS.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#319

Post by acomjean »

makerofthings wrote: post #263

As a consumer, I really like how the AppStore works and I buy iPhones for me and for my family specifically because there is only one store and one way of subscribing and one way of using in-app purchases. I really, really hope Apple win this. I just don't want to have to deal with the possibility that every app is going to have its own in-app-purchase dark patterns. If everyone that wants to be able to side-load alt…

So you like having only 1 app store for convince. I get that.

But there is an legitimate argument to be made by those who do want it. The lack of competition is probably hurting you too, in the form of higher prices for everything.

If there were alternatives you wouldn't be forecd to use them.

What if apple starts trying to monetize in ways you don't like? (like trying even more aggressively to get appleTV/ AppleMusic subscriptions) You are putting a lot of trust in a company that may change its ways. If they change, where are you going to go?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#320

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

indymike wrote: post #51
layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not have a monopoly on phones. Not even smartphones.

All of this depends on how the market is defined. If we use iPhone users as the market, then Apple is clearly a monopoly. If we use smartphones or computing devices, then Apple is not. Time will tell, and lots of lawyers are going to get paid a lot of money to argue this one out.

Ok, then why doesn't Coca-Cola Inc. let other companies' sell their beverage from Coca-Cola vending machines? Clearly they have a monopoly on Coca-Cola vending machines...
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