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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#301

Post by realusername »

zepto wrote: post #297
realusername wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in the retail world, there's competition between stores. Competition is non-existent in the mobile world, there's only two companies and both have the exact same fees and very similar policies.

So we need more entrants. Why doesn’t this coalition of multi-billion dollar corporations invest in creating an Android based alternative with different policies? That would add choice to the market rather than taking it away. They can clearly afford to do so, but it seems like they just don’t feel the need to make the investment.

That's because of the market lock-in and power of both companies, you can't use any of the Apple stack and Android without the Play Store is a commercial death sentence.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#302

Post by 52-6F-62 »

itg wrote: post #98

It boggles my mind that there are people rooting for Apple to "win" here. Whatever you think of Epic, Spotify, etc, the changes they propose would be a win for customers to use the devices the way they want to. If you only want to download apps from Apple's approved app store, they are not taking that away from you.

I bought an Apple phone specifically because it's not open.

I think we should be allowed to have that as much as we're allowed to make a completely open and modular device. I like having the choice to have a locked down, simplistic device. The fewer openings, the better for me there.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#303

Post by OCASM »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #278
echelon wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go use another phone if you don't like it. Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. Even if there wasn't a tax, the lack of freedom is what really gets me. Apple built itself atop open source. They leveraged it to gain control over 40% of the CPUs used by consumers. Now we can't run code for these people. I applaud their privacy stance. But free…

My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I d…

Is the macOS ecosystem filled with malware?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#304

Post by fhood »

echelon wrote: post #167
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

Your perspective makes me sad. I'm honestly depressed because people rush to defend bad behavior of their favorite monopoly. Like, physically holding back tears. Serious. What is wrong with us? Our computers and technology have been locked down by anti-competitive juggernauts. Our legislators have written laws that cede more of our liberties and privacy. This modern internet sucks so much and I want to go back to whe…

1. I could be wrong, but I do not consider Apple to have a "monopoly" here due to the quality and availability of Android devices.

> I want a world where we're free to install whatever we want on our devices or distribute our hard work to others without having to implement it 5 different ways.

That's lovely and all, but that has never existed? I don't understand how you would even accomplish this.

> I don't want to be taxed by entities worth trillions. Before they stood up the walls, I could reach all the people I wanted for free. Now they've turned us into poor serfs.

What does this even mean?! You could never reach "all the people" for free?

> he last bastion, the web, is even under attack...

Fair

> These rent-seeking companies took all of the goodwill and amazing technology we developed in the open

Who is "we"? Are we including the department of defense in "we"? Bell labs?

If you have a point, make your point. Tell me what specifically you take issue with in the original comment.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#305

Post by manigandham »

temp667 wrote: post #219
echelon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective makes me sad. I'm honestly depressed because people rush to defend bad behavior of their favorite monopoly. Like, physically holding back tears. Serious. What is wrong with us? Our computers and technology have been locked down by anti-competitive juggernauts. Our legislators have written laws that cede more of our liberties and privacy. This modern internet sucks so much and I want to go back to whe…

The "bad behavior"? Are you joking. You realize people pay apple EXTRA because they value their product? Their product holds its value far LONGER on the secondary market because it is maintained so well? You can get unlocked android phones and install whatever you want. But the reality for our parents / grandparents etc is that the folks who want to have root on their device want to scam them, auto bill them with non…

> "Go use another phone if you don't like it."

We, as consumers, should demand better behavior from trillion dollar corporations before they run our lives completely.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#306

Post by ksk »

karpierz wrote: post #19

If I build an operating system + hardware, should I be legally mandated to provide tooling to make it easy for users to find and install arbitrary software?

If you build an OS + hardware, how are you assuming apriori that you have users and also developers who write software that targets your platform? But anyway, the answer is no you should not be legally mandated in your case of boutique products.

The rules are different when free-markets fail, and one product or service dominates the entire market segment or exerts a large influence on the market (as determined by a legal authority).

The entire purpose of government is to serve our needs, if its no longer doing that we should amend laws/rules/policies as necessary. Everyone should be free to make an argument for their case.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#307

Post by 0xDEEPFAC »

rblatz wrote: post #291
0xDEEPFAC wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has more than enough money to both protect users and actually help developers - it doesn't need to squeeze them. For example, why isn't it a one-time fee for the initial scan? Why must they take a share of every purchase. Without competition (like gasp competing app stores) Apple will continue to be negligent to devs and ban applications that compete with their services. For example, the Apple watch without cel…

You start off with Apple has enough money and supposing that you know better how to run a successful App Store than the company with the most successful App Store. Maybe the App Store is so successful because it’s customers are the people that own the phone not the devs. I know I absolutely don’t want competing app stores, that ends with fragmentation and having to deal with a pile of installed app stores to download…

Lets replace "Apple" in your response with AT&T. "You think you know better how to run a successful phone service than a company with the most successful one?". No, I don't exactly, but I have enough common sense to see that they are doing wrong.

And sure they have the most successful (and only) app store compared to the only other app store.

But yea fragmentation/choice is just awful and without a doubt will lead to a less rich experience... totally

Your reply comes off as very authoritarian and controlling. If you like the app store then you should have the choice to use it. What you are saying is that devs shouldn't have access to other options because you dont understand why they wouldn't use the perfect one already there.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#308

Post by zepto »

realusername wrote: post #301
zepto wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we need more entrants. Why doesn’t this coalition of multi-billion dollar corporations invest in creating an Android based alternative with different policies? That would add choice to the market rather than taking it away. They can clearly afford to do so, but it seems like they just don’t feel the need to make the investment.

That's because of the market lock-in and power of both companies, you can't use any of the Apple stack and Android without the Play Store is a commercial death sentence.

Why is it a death sentence not to have the play store?

I don’t see why Epic couldn’t create their own gaming focussed device, and buy a bunch of exclusive titles including their own content.

If their store had better terms than Play, and accepted APKs, why wouldn’t other developers want to sell through it?

If the argument is that developers are desperate for better terms, it must follow that they would want to support a store which provided them.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#309

Post by actuator »

Why is Microsoft not in on this? Apple didn't allow Xbox Game Pass, while Samsung was proudly showcasing gaming on their phones on it.

They seem to be the most hard done by unfair Apple practices. As far as I understand, they are not allowing the gaming service at all when it for all intents is nothing different from Netflix in principle.

I certainly hope Microsoft joins in on this and not cut a side deal, it will hurt other devs in the long run.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#310

Post by 52-6F-62 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #8

Spotify? "The Coalition for", um, "App Fairness"? Yeah. I guess maybe sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil. But as a musician, I can't bring myself to do this one.

This take is as reasonable as any other.

A musician wants to make more money and Spotify fails to pay according to that desire and the comment is rejected?

A developer (or megacorp) wants to make more money and Apple fails to pay according to that desire and now we're in a legitimate discussion?

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