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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#11

Post by danShumway »

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page (https://appfairness.org/)? I'm not certain the article is adding anything.

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I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness site in particular seem really poorly phrased, almost to the point of being incoherent.

From their objection on "user freedom":

> Think about this a little differently: A box of Cheerios costs about $3.00 at Kroger, but sometimes Cheerios offers a coupon which lowers the price to $2.50 at any store that offers Cheerios. What Apple is doing is basically like Kroger telling Cheerios that they’re not allowed to offer coupons, and if they do, Cheerios is at risk of being kicked out of the cereal aisle. Consumers wouldn’t stand for this type of monopolistic behavior over their cereal, so why should they allow it for the apps used on their mobile devices?

I had to think really hard what they mean by this and how it actually relates to user freedom. Most resellers are allowed to choose their own prices for goods. I don't think this analogy corresponds at all to what Apple is doing. Apple is banning apps from telling consumers in app about other purchasing options. That's a totally different objection.

I'm pleased to see developers banding together, but if this is the result then I wish they'd spend more time making more reasonable, understandable arguments. If this site was my first introduction to the debate over app store policies, I think I'd probably be on Apple's side.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#12

Post by dleslie »

mFixman wrote: post #6
doublerabbit wrote: post #2

"The Coalition for App Fairness", I cannot not laugh. On the stage you have: Epic - Trying to be the next Valve/Steam. Happy to rip off their customers via in-game transactions. Spotify - Who rip off artists by either failing or paying very little in royalties. Tinder - Sells sex. None of these companies have any care for the actual developer; who are the folk trying to make a living from their creations.

All three allow games, music, and dating to happen outside of their platforms. The Apple equivalent would be Microsoft not allowing any program being installed from outside their store or Tinder closing down all bars in a city to lower competition.

I can't sell my music streaming service on Spotify.

I can't provide my own dating service on Tinder.

I can't operate my own app store on EGS.

Edit: what, I can't expect them to abide by their own demands of Apple?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#13

Post by poorman »

Inside the article:

> Other founding members include ProtonMail email service owner Proton Technologies AG, trade group News Media Europe and project-management software maker Basecamp LLC.

Link to the advocacy group page: https://appfairness.org/

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#14

Post by dimitrios1 »

mFixman wrote: post #7
electriclove wrote: post #3

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

It's a monopoly, and it's illegal.

Calling a company that has ~13% of the market share in mobile devices is quite the take. It will never hold up in court.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#15

Post by disposekinetics »

mFixman wrote: post #7
electriclove wrote: post #3

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

It's a monopoly, and it's illegal.

It's a monopoly in the same way Spotify not hosting some episodes of Joe Rogan is a monopoly.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#16

Post by speedgoose »

doublerabbit wrote: post #2

"The Coalition for App Fairness", I cannot not laugh. On the stage you have: Epic - Trying to be the next Valve/Steam. Happy to rip off their customers via in-game transactions. Spotify - Who rip off artists by either failing or paying very little in royalties. Tinder - Sells sex. None of these companies have any care for the actual developer; who are the folk trying to make a living from their creations.

Tinder sells rejections and disappointments too.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#17

Post by emptysongglass »

dleslie wrote: post #9
mFixman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a monopoly, and it's illegal.

Apple clearly has competitors that have a much larger share of the market.

They have one competitor on which users are allowed to install their own market (see F-Droid.) [1]

[1] https://www.f-droid.org/

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#18

Post by asou »

doublerabbit wrote: post #2

"The Coalition for App Fairness", I cannot not laugh. On the stage you have: Epic - Trying to be the next Valve/Steam. Happy to rip off their customers via in-game transactions. Spotify - Who rip off artists by either failing or paying very little in royalties. Tinder - Sells sex. None of these companies have any care for the actual developer; who are the folk trying to make a living from their creations.

Considering Tinder's parent ( The Match Group ) got sued by the FTC for fraud, not very smart to include them. Intentionally making subscriptions hard to cancel is one of the behaviors Apple's payment system seeks to prevent.

As much as I like Tim Sweeney's arguments for lower royalties, he doesn't have half a toe to stand on.

Don't want to pay the Apple tax, make your own phone. This fairness coalition is free to manufacture Android phones with a no royalties store . Hogan's Law on YouTube has done a very good take on this. The government can not compel two companies to engage in a contract. If I set up a newspaper stand and decide anyone who wants to sell news papers needs to cut me in for 30%, you can't demand special treatment.

I could see Apple making an example out of Epic and banning them for life. You don't sneak in hidden functionality, and then flick it on via a server side command

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