Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 456 posts

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#291

Post by tharne »

maxbond wrote: post #284
rayiner wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels wrong but it’s also how pretty much every culture got to be the way it is. Why do I have an Arabic last name even though I was born 3,000 miles away from the Middle East? Because 800 years ago an Islamic empire conquered India and Bangladesh. Why do Bangladeshis wear powdered wigs in court? Because the British conquered them 500 years after that. The British themselves are the product of numerous waves of co…

Past wrongs do not justify present wrongs. It is not wrong for individuals to choose to assimilate. The deliberate and systematic destruction of other cultures - which China is engaged in on multiple fronts - is wrong.

I see this a lot. There's a loss of confidence in the West, where people feel like you can't call out immoral behavior unless it's committed by another westerner or a western nation. This serves absolutely no one well.

The fact that a country or civilization has past sins should not be a disqualification from taking a moral stand in the present. Some form of mild hypocrisy is vastly preferable to sitting silent while a country destroys another culture or puts it's Muslim population in concentration camps.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#292

Post by dumb1224 »

iliveinchina wrote: post #169
dumb1224 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is from Sichuan which is bordering Tibet. It is a bit more complicated than that. Over the years the development has been fast but still far behind the majority of China. The polices to 'encourage' and harness the great overall economic growth were uniquely shaped and had an element of 'outdated' fashion (or USSR style if that's your opinion). And the flags and posters you saw is probably a chicken and egg pr…

I agree, there is some nuance to the matter. I am partially sympathetic to the idea that this can be a way for people to lead better lives - in the modern, economic sense - instead of subsistence nomading. At the same time, China has, over the past several years, also demonstrated a trend of new behavior and a clear break away from a previous trend of liberalization that started with Deng. This push in Tibet should b…

I want to agree with you but I too am a bit out of touch (all the information is from friends). I don't like to defend the central gov but there is too much smoke and mirror to see through things. A lot of press reports genuine issues about China but also a mix of unverifiable information. I believe the local governance is actually improving. At central level it might be a very different story. However that said sometimes it is hard to judge. Did it really depart from Deng's approach? Was Deng's method deserving applause? My parents generation (the equivalent of boomers) suffered most throughout their youth and it is only getting better now. So for any long term impact, I'm not sure myself.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#293

Post by actuator »

platinumrad wrote: post #204
throwmeaway_pls wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think silencing criticism of human rights abuses is bad. Your whataboutism does not cut it here.

Call it "whataboutism" if you must, but I think it's strange and counterproductive to ignore the elephant in the room when it comes to influence and control over popular media.

Although I agree with the sentiment that US has a lot of soft power influence, I would argue that most of it is just US capitalism shining at its best. I think the best example of this is WW2 related content like movies. In France public perception of who won them World War 2 changed from Soviet Union in 1940s to US in 2000s. [1]

One major difference in US soft power is, they don't censor media critical of them to an extent even close to what CCP does. Look at the commentary on the pointless Vietnam War originating from US in their media, try to find something similar on PRC's pointless war in Vietnam which they lost.

[1] https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sondage...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#294

Post by tharne »

yters wrote: post #273
magicsmoke wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publicly calling out the flaws of colonialism but privately enjoying the benefits of colonialism exactly convincing. >additionally, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution I'm assuming this refers to the US. The US criticizes its treatment of natives and how they were decimated as the US expanded west. But at the same time, it enjoys all the benefits from not having a large indigenous populat…

so you agree colonialism is wrong, but will not denounce modern colonialism because the usa eliminated indigenous people in the past? colonialism is only wrong if done by the us? and if we need a pristine past to denounce modern injustice, then that is a recipe to accomodate every injustice that comes our way

Welcome to the new left, where the only wrongs that can be discussed are those committed by Europeans or Americans. Ironic, because if you're truly committed to the idea that all people are created equal, you have to acknowledge that that means we all have a similar capacity for evil and brutality, regardless of race or culture.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#295

Post by pc86 »

chillacy wrote: post #209
rtx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not only that, they have many politicians on their books. Even western publications are warry about highlighting what's happening prominently. Today a NYPD officer was caught spying for them. https://abc7ny.com/nypd-spying-baimadajie-angwang-tibetan-of... (caution playing video)

That’s how the game is played afaik... in Snowden’s book he mentions how the CIA operatives bribe assets in foreign countries (and himself witnessing a disastrous operation). The prime minister of Singapore famously called the CIA out on it: https://mothership.sg/2017/02/cias-failed-attempt-to-bribe-l...

Are there any details of the operation Snowden witnessed? I don't think I'm familiar with that and would be interested in reading/watching it.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#296

Post by notaround1111 »

dagenleg wrote: post #278
aww_dang wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1)From the historical perspective internal conflict within China would be the deciding factor. 2)India isn't dovish or shy about confronting China. 3)The PLA is comprised of mostly only-sons and hasn't been deployed in a real conflict.

> PLA is comprised of mostly only-sons and hasn't been deployed in a real conflict. Sorry, did you forget the Korean war? Sure, Sino-Indian and Sino-Vietnamese wars were much smaller by comparison, but also very real conflicts.

Fighting an adversary like the PLA in occupied areas like Tibet, Xinjiang, HK and maybe Taiwan someday plays to the strengths of the US armed forces. It would be an embarrassing disaster for the PRC that would very likely lead to a collapse of the party and force them into some type of hermit kingdom, like NK.

The US has been in near constant war for almost 100 years, having big parades with uniforms doesn't make up for that.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#297

Post by smithza »

defen wrote: post #285
madenine wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. I don't understand this take. Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

> Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America? Because as bad as the human rights abuses against Black Americans in America are, they pale in comparison to what China is doing. But that's not the only issue. The bigger issue is that LeBron James chooses to make hundreds of millions of dollars by staying sil…

This is the point exactly. China brings in 10% of the NBA's revenue[1]. I am arguing alongside you that we can really effect change if we use our economic leverage and not merely our political leverage. We cannot stand for these abuses. I also really do not want to distract from the race issue we are working through today; it seems our news cycle can only handle one thing at a time though.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nba-needs-china-revenue-growt...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#298

Post by dhagz »

golergka wrote: post #282
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

> current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases You make it sound as if they were a part of aggressive expansion and colonisation, which is a bit misleading. Vast majority of US military bases are in NATO countries that were very enthusiastic about outsourcing protection from the soviet threat.

It's definitely not colonization, but I'd still say it's aggressive expansion. We just happened to make people think it was a good thing.

Looking back now, I'm not so sure it was the net good it was sold as.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#299

Post by richiebful1 »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #242
sandworm101 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. 'Everyone is a victim' is a cop out. The fact that some ancestor of mine was probably conquered by vikings doesn't mean that I shouldn't criticize china for doing the same thing today. Nor do I feel like a conqueror because some other ancestor was one of those vikings. Look to the deep past for lessons. Don't point to the deep past a…

The fact that you criticise someone doesn’t make you right though. It’s just a fact that every single empire in history ended up with a society which hated the conquests only to be conquered by another, less ethically-concerned nation. It’s easy to judge when you are in a privileged position, however the reason you do that is because you already made someone else pay the price of the externalities of your champagne p…

Can you explain how conquest is necessary for people to come out of poverty?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#300

Post by medium_burrito »

platinumrad wrote: post #271
smithza wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BLM movement is important; I have no interest in distracting from this problem. Lebron was explicitly asked about the CCP and their human-rights abuses after an NBA manager unpopularly criticized the CCP. The NBA would rather not talk about the CCP and the manager was effectively shamed for doing so. Capitalism cannot look past the $$$. China makes up 10% of NBA revenue [1] [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nba-…

It's absolutely reasonable for NBA players to not want to comment on complicated issues that are outside of the scope of their political interests[1][2]. It would be nice to see the same humility in other aspects of our public discourse. [1] https://www.radio.com/sports/nba/former-nba-star-anti-china-... [2] https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2019/10/12/nb...

"Complicated issues", ie outright slavery, which is very much on the minds of Americans?
Post reply on HN