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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#241

Post by ddoolin »

jtdev wrote: post #226
sandworm101 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. 'Everyone is a victim' is a cop out. The fact that some ancestor of mine was probably conquered by vikings doesn't mean that I shouldn't criticize china for doing the same thing today. Nor do I feel like a conqueror because some other ancestor was one of those vikings. Look to the deep past for lessons. Don't point to the deep past a…

Not to mention, China can’t seem to stop at simply owning the land, they want to wipe these regions and people of their culture and heritage.

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, there is some evidence to suggest this, such as reports of them sending Han men to replace Uighur men in their homes after they've been sent to prison camps.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#242

Post by heavenlyblue »

sandworm101 wrote: post #221
chillacy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading an account from the Roman Empire about parents begrudgingly using the imperial language while their kids grew up completely “Roman”. Then I reflected that if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. Someone else in their reply mentioned Hawaii and the US but even Hawaii was unified by force by King Kamehameha. I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re…

>> if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. 'Everyone is a victim' is a cop out. The fact that some ancestor of mine was probably conquered by vikings doesn't mean that I shouldn't criticize china for doing the same thing today. Nor do I feel like a conqueror because some other ancestor was one of those vikings. Look to the deep past for lessons. Don't point to the deep past a…

The fact that you criticise someone doesn’t make you right though.

It’s just a fact that every single empire in history ended up with a society which hated the conquests only to be conquered by another, less ethically-concerned nation.

It’s easy to judge when you are in a privileged position, however the reason you do that is because you already made someone else pay the price of the externalities of your champagne pacifism.

Basically you have this ethical idea that war is bad, but you provide no solution as to how to make today’s poor people reach the same level of education and plenty without giving them the means to conquer you politically, economically or by the means of warfare.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#243

Post by madenine »

smithza wrote: post #214
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

> But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. We cannot place our hopes in capitalism to deal with these human-rights atrocities, even though there is much the NBA could do to use their financial power to influence the region and demand change. MLK would use boycotts to force racist busi…

> Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1].

I don't understand this take.

Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#244

Post by jjcon »

bobbyz wrote: post #218
jariel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, are Hawaiians put into forced labour camps? Can they own property? Businesses? Vote? Can the run for Congress, Senate, President? Are they taught that they cannot have their heritage? "whataboutism'.

The Japanese were interned during WWII, illegals are in camps now, and the Chinese will likely be soon. Puerto Ricans STILL can't vote. Its important to build your argument from sturdy facts, so that big bad reality can't huff and puff and blow it all down!

‘Illegals’ are not in forced labor camps and that sort of equivalence is just gross. Immigrants to Europe and the US need a place to stay while their cases are processed, with the increases in immigration (especially in Europe) it is difficult to keep up with. Does the west need to do better? Absolutely but stating that these immigrant camps are like forced labor camps is deliberately misleading and just flat out wrong.

Additionally - it hasn’t been until recently that Puerto Rico has favored statehood (over free association).

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#245

Post by foepys »

crocodiletears wrote: post #203
foepys wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear it already is too late. China was brave enough to take Hong Kong in one swift motion. The international response has been so weak that China is already eyeing Taiwan. Just yesterday they flew with 18 fighter jets and a bomber across the unofficial but mutually agreed border between Taiwan and China. This is unprecedented. If the situation doesn't deescalate quickly, we might see a war soon and if push comes to…

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

Appeasement didn't work back in the 1930s and won't work now. Let China take Taiwan and they'll probably look at Vietnam or even South Korea or Japan.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#246

Post by ReptileMan »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #147
levosmetalo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish grandchildren of your grandparents today would be less willing to sacrifice their lives for anyone in the world by playing the worlds' government, lawmaker and policemen. The world would be much safer and peaceful place.

Do you think the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if nobody stopped nazi germany?

Yes. It wouldn't have been nicer probably since being populated only by ayrians would get boring, but once you are finished with genocide it would be peaceful and strong authoritarian states usually are safe.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#247

Post by tachyonbeam »

abawany wrote: post #52
pc86 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until China stops manufacturing everything, and I'm thinking by then it will be too late.

I see companies shifting manufacturing out of the PRC, though sadly not fast enough and not for human rights reasons. Cellphones made in Vietnam etc. (e.g Pixel 4a I think) would be preferable to supporting the current regime in the PRC. Here's hoping we stop enabling the cruel regime in the PRC.

I think economic forces will play a part here. As China develops economically, it becomes more expensive to build there. That will tend to slowly but surely drive manufacturing to other locations. India has many strong technical universities and is a potential competitor.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#248

Post by bobbyz »

yenwodyah wrote: post #167
free_rms wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan, Iraq? And that's before we get into proxy wars.

Neither of those countries are being colonized, by any definition of the word.

If puppet governments don't count as colonialism, then the British were not very colonial and the Japanese did not colonize Manchuria.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#249

Post by jakeva »

platinumrad wrote: post #213
Ericson2314 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you thinking of the Philipines or Puerto Rico? Hawaii was never colonized by the Spanish. That said, I don't mind to refute the larger point. In fact, I would make Puerto Rico independent in conjunction with recognizing Taiwan.

Puerto Rico should be granted statehood, not independence, unless you want it to be an impoverished client of the United States.

Unlike how it is now?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#250

Post by magicsmoke »

yters wrote: post #122
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

we call out all our own flaws from the past and now reject colonialism additionally, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution why are not right to call out others currently making our mistakes from the past?

Publicly calling out the flaws of colonialism but privately enjoying the benefits of colonialism exactly convincing.

>additionally, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution

I'm assuming this refers to the US. The US criticizes its treatment of natives and how they were decimated as the US expanded west. But at the same time, it enjoys all the benefits from not having a large indigenous population that occupies militarily strategic land, poses a military/separatist threat, and is too numerous to assimilate. I don't see the US deciding to return North America to its indigenous population so they can rebuild their historic societies because conveniently, all those lands are either settled or their previous inhabitants have no descendants. I can only conclude that words are cheap when it comes to foreign events, but when it comes to the cost of fixing domestic injustice suddenly no one wants to pay.

As an analogy, this is like the US racing to the top of a hill in a car, then telling everyone else they have to walk because driving is bad for the environment. And no, the US will not help pay for the extra time and water they'll have to take, nor will it drive back down and join them in a fair race.

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