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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#201

Post by throwmeaway_pls »

platinumrad wrote: post #181
jariel wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff." 20 years ago we were. Tibet was a little bit like BLM, all over Hollywood, in pop culture. The Dalai Lama was somewhat of a figure. Then China told Americans to 'shut their mouths' and they did. This is a tiny example of the tremendous power of that machine, it really cannot be ignored but I think we probably will. Edit: some notes [1] [2] [1] https:…

The US government has exerted influence and control over Hollywood and pop culture for decades but it's so pervasive that you've just taken it for granted. Now you're seeing a foreign government to the same, at a much smaller scale and to a much smaller degree and you're hysterically suggesting that your freedom is being taken away by "the tremendous power of that machine". How do you think the rest of the world feel…

I think silencing criticism of human rights abuses is bad. Your whataboutism does not cut it here.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#202

Post by tzs »

aww_dang wrote: post #130
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Judging the past on the standards of the present isn't a productive line of reasoning. Using past mistakes to rationalize further atrocities is beyond regressive.

True. On the other hand, many of those past behaviors that we see as wrong for today were a big part of how we got to our present high standard of living. Doing those bad things was cheaper and faster than less bad methods.

If we are going to tell lower standard of living countries that they need to take the slower or more expensive routes to wealth instead of using the same bad ways we did, we should be using some of our wealth to subsidize those more expensive routes for them.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#203

Post by crocodiletears »

foepys wrote: post #31
pc86 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until China stops manufacturing everything, and I'm thinking by then it will be too late.

I fear it already is too late. China was brave enough to take Hong Kong in one swift motion. The international response has been so weak that China is already eyeing Taiwan. Just yesterday they flew with 18 fighter jets and a bomber across the unofficial but mutually agreed border between Taiwan and China. This is unprecedented. If the situation doesn't deescalate quickly, we might see a war soon and if push comes to…

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people.

I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile installations.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#204

Post by platinumrad »

throwmeaway_pls wrote: post #201
platinumrad wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government has exerted influence and control over Hollywood and pop culture for decades but it's so pervasive that you've just taken it for granted. Now you're seeing a foreign government to the same, at a much smaller scale and to a much smaller degree and you're hysterically suggesting that your freedom is being taken away by "the tremendous power of that machine". How do you think the rest of the world feel…

I think silencing criticism of human rights abuses is bad. Your whataboutism does not cut it here.

Call it "whataboutism" if you must, but I think it's strange and counterproductive to ignore the elephant in the room when it comes to influence and control over popular media.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#206

Post by chillacy »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

I was reading an account from the Roman Empire about parents begrudgingly using the imperial language while their kids grew up completely “Roman”. Then I reflected that if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation.

Someone else in their reply mentioned Hawaii and the US but even Hawaii was unified by force by King Kamehameha. I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re all the conquerors and the conquered.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#207

Post by bobbyz »

actuator wrote: post #133
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

> So like Hawaii? Are people in Hawaii still getting held at gunpoint to assimilate to whatever American culture is? If yes, we should definitely complain about it now. > Yes. Plus they have old claims to the area (as valid as a claim can be). Yes, we all know about those claims like the comical nine dash line. Tibet has always been a historical buffer state between the Chinese and Indian civilizations, culturally in…

If you think the nine dash line is comical, you're going to LOVE the British drawn India-Pakistani border with the most important Sikh holy site in muslim majority Pakistan! After you have a chuckle at that, you can ask the native americans how much fun they had with map drawing lunatics during the colonization of the Americas.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#208

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

shrewduser wrote: post #143
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Dude have you been to hawaii? their culture is very much in tact and proud. Not only that but locals have special rights and privileges over mainlanders not the reverse.

Hawaiian culture is not intact. The Hawaiian language has suffered enormous domain loss. Few are the shops or restaurants where one can get by entirely in Hawaiian, and forget about being able to speak your language with most of your elected officials and public servants.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#209

Post by chillacy »

rtx wrote: post #46
pc86 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until China stops manufacturing everything, and I'm thinking by then it will be too late.

Its not only that, they have many politicians on their books. Even western publications are warry about highlighting what's happening prominently. Today a NYPD officer was caught spying for them. https://abc7ny.com/nypd-spying-baimadajie-angwang-tibetan-of... (caution playing video)

That’s how the game is played afaik... in Snowden’s book he mentions how the CIA operatives bribe assets in foreign countries (and himself witnessing a disastrous operation).

The prime minister of Singapore famously called the CIA out on it: https://mothership.sg/2017/02/cias-failed-attempt-to-bribe-l...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#210

Post by ng12 »

pc86 wrote: post #18
liminal wrote: post #10

Han supremacy has all the markings of other supremacist movements and will unfortunately need to be confronted. Not sure when the world will work up the courage to do so, though.

Not until China stops manufacturing everything, and I'm thinking by then it will be too late.

Not until we stop buying everything China manufactures. We need tariffs and sanctions on any country with China's human rights record.
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