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US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

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Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#131

Post by claudeganon »

grey-area wrote: post #50
technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

Cui bono? This sets up the current president and spy agencies to approach US tech companies with both a carrot and a stick - look what 'America first' can do for you, and look what I can do to you if you get in my way. This sort of erosion of due process and international law serves the current administration well (government by fiat is now the norm), but I don't think it serves the US itself well at all. We're about…

> This sets up the current president and spy agencies to approach US tech companies with both a carrot and a stick

This has already happened? It’s weird to have these conversations as if the Snowden revelations don’t exist.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#132

Post by kelnos »

vbezhenar wrote: post #75
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, separate from the Trump Administration's actual motivations (which I think are at best vague and at worst petty retaliation), I thought this NY Times editorial made a pretty strong case in favor of banning these platforms: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opinion/tiktok-wechat-ban... TikTok and WeChat benefit from being the only social networks that can be accessed from all of the largest internet markets in th…

Imagine that Russia bans Facebook because of those reasons. Do you think that would be a good move?

Doesn't Russia have VK, and isn't it the most popular site in Russia? FB is certainly popular in Russia, but it's not like people there wouldn't have another place to go if FB were banned.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#133

Post by nairteashop »

chance_state wrote: post #58
busheezy wrote: post #6

It seems like WeChat access is pretty hard to get in the US currently if you don't know anyone that uses it. I registered an account to try and get support for my Ender 3D printer(nightmare). After a few fields the app asked me to have my sponsor enter my number and I wasn't able to progress further so I uninstalled.

Wait what? You need a "sponsor" to use WeChat?

Sponsor is perhaps a strong word. You need another WeChat user to verify your account by scanning a QR code displayed on your app using their app. You need to do this when you create an account, and also if you haven't used your account in a while. I assume this is some sort of anti-spam/anti-bot feature.

Note that the above is just for the chat feature. You have to jump through more hoops if you want to make payments using the app.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#134

Post by withinboredom »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #90
cyc116 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if the Send money feature is what triggers it then isn't it already banned prior to this ban? There are also many non-Chinese that use wechat.

> There are also many non-Chinese that use wechat. Are there?

If you have a Chinese supplier or have Chinese friends, you probably have wechat.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#135

Post by js2 »

tuna-piano wrote: post #72
hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

Good points. It's crazy the level of power I'm learning our executive branch has... Government is dangerous without checks and balances.

> There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Washington%27s_Farewell_Addre...

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#136

Post by kelnos »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #118
baron_harkonnen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't have many Chinese friends, if you do I would recommend asking them how important it is for them. It is an essential form of communication for the large community of Chinese citizens in the US. If you have any Chinese friends I can promise you their families are worried about how they are going to keep in touch. It's also heavily used for intra-US communication in various Chinese communities. In…

It's a big pain, but surely they'll find another way to keep in touch, though? What do western people do in China to keep in touch with their families back home, when all the western social media apps are banned? It's hard for me to believe that a state-backed communications app is the only option available to Chinese expats.

I assume most expats living in China use VPNs to get around the blocks.

The blocks are mainly there to keep Chinese citizens in line; from what I understand non-citizen residents seem to be mostly left alone, as long as they don't interfere with censorship and blocking intended for citizens.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#137

Post by dllthomas »

Navarr wrote: post #69
zaksoup wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come the argument "you can just buy an android phone" doesn't apply to iOS users in the same way "you can just sideload an APK" does to Google play store users? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious about how people think of these distinctions.

sunk cost fallacy. If you have an iPhone you're probably deep into the Apple ecosystem and migrating to another platform is painful.

Money spent on apps you don't use anymore may be "sunk costs". Likewise, money spent on apps with an equivalent, free alternative on Android.

Resistance due to money (and effort) that would need to be spent to migrate to Android is not the sunk cost fallacy.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#138

Post by kelnos »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #123
trasz wrote: post #46

Well, since US fails to compete in other ways...

What? The U.S. failed to create competing social apps? You realize the only reason WeChat exists is because China didn't let western companies compete, right?

I wouldn't say it's the only reason. WeChat is more than just a chat app; it's also a social networking and payments app. For digital payments, at least, the US is far, far behind the ease of use and merchant buy-in that apps like WeChat offer.

I know people in China and other Asian countries who rarely pull out cash or even a credit/bank card, and handle nearly all of their payments through apps.

Think of it like Venmo, but all merchants accept it directly, and you can complete transactions in the middle of a chat session (with a merchant or a regular person) without having to switch to another payment-dedicated UX.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#139

Post by apta »

peacefulhat wrote: post #20

WeChat ban is just evil, no justifiable benefit. Almost all the users in America are overseas Chinese who use it to talk to friends and family in China and send money.

That's because the CCP has banned non-CCP apps, they're getting a taste of their own medicine.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#140

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

peacefulhat wrote: post #20

WeChat ban is just evil, no justifiable benefit. Almost all the users in America are overseas Chinese who use it to talk to friends and family in China and send money.

There is at least a dozen apps to chat with your friends: from Telegram to FB messenger. Why banning one of them is evil?
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