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US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

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Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#41

Post by detaro »

jmoss20 wrote: post #30
ericmay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea but if the citizens of the US don't like it they can call on their representatives to introduce a bill limiting that power or whatnot. The president also theoretically has the power to just unilaterally start a war or even drop a nuclear bomb on another country. But this isn't a Trump issue, we've increasingly turned to look at the president as the government instead of elected representatives. In an ideal scenar…

> The president also theoretically has the power to just unilaterally start a war... ? " The Congress shall have Power . . . To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules conquering Captures on Land and Water;" -- US Constitution, Article I, 8.11

Maybe the argument is that you don't need to declare a war to start one?

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#42

Post by Wowfunhappy »

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

So, separate from the Trump Administration's actual motivations (which I think are at best vague and at worst petty retaliation), I thought this NY Times editorial made a pretty strong case in favor of banning these platforms:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opinion/tiktok-wechat-ban...

TikTok and WeChat benefit from being the only social networks that can be accessed from all of the largest internet markets in the world. And the only social networks that can do that are... the ones from China. When the US is permissive, and China is not, China gets to write all the rules.

This gives China the ability to effectively export their restrictions on speech around the world, as they have shown an eagerness to do. If you want to be a global social network, you have to play by China's rules, globally.

I'm not personally convinced that banning these platforms is the right move, but I think the case is legitimate, and it's certainly a major problem.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#43

Post by Alupis »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #29
newen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump wasn't elected because of magic mind hacking by Facebook or whatever. He appealed to issues that people were concerned about, whatever you may think of those issues, and so they voted for him.

Watch the latest Triumph bit from the Colbert show to see the mentality of Trump supporters. We are living in an idiocracy now. 51% of Americans have no critical thinking skills. The "issues" are whatever you can use to trigger an emotional response from someone who is easily manipulated.

> Watch the latest Triumph bit from the Colbert show to see the mentality of Trump supporters

Colbert has built a career upon exaggerating and editorializing politics. He is an entertainer and comedian, not an analyst. He is hardly a sound source for any real political insight.

> The "issues" are whatever you can use to trigger an emotional response from someone who is easily manipulated.

I think the same can be said about both political ideologies in the US. Emotional issues are far easier to get worked up about, even if there is no easy solution to the "issue" at hand.

To claim only 51% of the country falls into this category, and to imply it's only one political ideology, is disingenuous at best. Particularly when you lead your post with something a comedian said on a late night TV show, ie. the very same emotional appeal you rail against.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#44

Post by jmeister »

mcgt wrote: post #24
ericmay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea but if the citizens of the US don't like it they can call on their representatives to introduce a bill limiting that power or whatnot. The president also theoretically has the power to just unilaterally start a war or even drop a nuclear bomb on another country. But this isn't a Trump issue, we've increasingly turned to look at the president as the government instead of elected representatives. In an ideal scenar…

>But instead we're lazy so we just want the president to be a dictator instead of safeguarding our republic. Funny. I wrote my senator months ago about that encryption bill going around then. Just got a canned response back today, about how law enforcement should be able to access encrypted nformation, etc. Poetically waxing about the effects of "writing your reps" is bullshit when they are entrenched with one anothe…

Reg. balkanisation: there are already successful examples of Belgium and Canada. I think the reason it’s never discussed is that it can easily snowball into full fledged secession.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#45

Post by jessaustin »

pessimizer wrote: post #36
peteontherun wrote: post #28

Although this is very reactionary and targeted, I hope it eventually spurs a structured process to handle issues like these, ie: a) Clear criteria for what constitutes an app national security risk b) An actual government process to evaluate, respond, and enforce against all potential app threats (not just based on popularity, though scale is a factor in prioritization)

I'd rather they not institutionalize this. More bureaucracy isn't going to be meaningful if this is the model, the bureaucracy will just exist to whitewash this stuff in the future.

I also prefer "less authoritarianism" to "more reasonable authoritarianism".

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#47

Post by wonnage »

newen wrote: post #13
thesausageking wrote: post #3

[redacted]

Trump wasn't elected because of magic mind hacking by Facebook or whatever. He appealed to issues that people were concerned about, whatever you may think of those issues, and so they voted for him.

This is the same logic used by people who insist ads don't work on them, because "I never click them!"

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#48

Post by dheera »

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

PSA: If you have an Android phone, you can download WeChat directly from wechat.com. You don't need to go through the Google Play store because your OS supports your freedom to some degree to install whatever you want on hardware that you OWN.

If you have an iPhone, sorry that your phone company's CEO is pretty much a dictator and is complicit in restricting the freedom of Americans.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#49

Post by dheera »

PSA: If you have an Android phone, you can download WeChat directly from wechat.com. You don't need to go through the Google Play store because your OS supports your freedom to some degree to install whatever you want on hardware that you OWN.

If you have an iPhone, sorry that your phone company's CEO is pretty much a dictator and is complicit in restricting the freedom of Americans.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#50

Post by grey-area »

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

Cui bono? This sets up the current president and spy agencies to approach US tech companies with both a carrot and a stick - look what 'America first' can do for you, and look what I can do to you if you get in my way.

This sort of erosion of due process and international law serves the current administration well (government by fiat is now the norm), but I don't think it serves the US itself well at all. We're about to discover just how resistant the US republic is to such attacks on free speech and the rule of law.

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