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US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

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Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#111

Post by xnx »

tuna-piano wrote: post #72
hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

Good points. It's crazy the level of power I'm learning our executive branch has... Government is dangerous without checks and balances.

Much of government was designed with expectations of certain norms being followed that are now being violated. There are a lot of checks and balances (e.g. impeachment) that could be executed if a branch of the government was willing to cooperate.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#112

Post by xnx »

didibus wrote: post #104
Bhilai wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. America is not China and should not frame its policies based on China's policies. While, I agree there is a need to retaliate but 'be like China' is hardly the way to do it.

I agree that the US shouldn't justify acting like an autocratic state because China does so, but on the side of punishing an autocratic state there is precedent all over the place. The question we should ask is more how the US ever allowed China such exception in the first place, when Cuba for example has a full on total sanction against it, and so do many other autocratic states. So how did China get away without th…

> So how did China get away without that for so long?

Cheap labor for US manufacturing

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#113

Post by grumple »

akersten wrote: post #110

When will Apple and Google come out and say "no" to this? What is the legislative mechanism that gives the Dept of Commerce control over what code (speech) is transmitted on their app platform? Calling it a "transaction" is a stretch - using that logic, Department of Commerce could ban any online download they wanted. That's clearly not a good outcome, and not an interpretation we as technologists should accept.

Can't they? Aren't there bans on open source contributions between Iran and the US?

See: https://github.com/1995parham/github-do-not-ban-us

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#114

Post by kunai »

gameswithgo wrote: post #105

We see another side effect of app stores: gives governments easy leverage to tell you what you can do with your computer.

Bingo. Wonder how all the Apple defenders like John Gruber are gonna spin this one.

App Stores were always a mistake. Walled gardens were always a mistake. The people arguing that they were good because of security or whatever were arguing on behalf of a red herring. It's security theater. iOS has had, what, like 6 critical vulnerabilities in the past 5 years? What was the point? Quite literally only to limit what you can and can't run on your own device.

For all it's worth, I'm thrilled the Microsoft Store is dying a painful death and that most Windows apps continue to be installable via NSIS or MSIs.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#116

Post by peacefulhat »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #34
peacefulhat wrote: post #20

WeChat ban is just evil, no justifiable benefit. Almost all the users in America are overseas Chinese who use it to talk to friends and family in China and send money.

Calling the ban evil is a bit hyperbolic IMO, or maybe just incomplete. Phones with the software could easily be compromised. Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. All these are real, legitimate reasons to ban it.

If US govt really cared about OS-level security vulnerabilities from malicious apps, a better strategy would be to require Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make their OS 100% source-available (non-duplication) and encourage serious industry criticism of their codebase. Current strategy of selectively banning Chinese apps and products is just bullshit.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#117

Post by ericmay »

mcgt wrote: post #24
ericmay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea but if the citizens of the US don't like it they can call on their representatives to introduce a bill limiting that power or whatnot. The president also theoretically has the power to just unilaterally start a war or even drop a nuclear bomb on another country. But this isn't a Trump issue, we've increasingly turned to look at the president as the government instead of elected representatives. In an ideal scenar…

>But instead we're lazy so we just want the president to be a dictator instead of safeguarding our republic. Funny. I wrote my senator months ago about that encryption bill going around then. Just got a canned response back today, about how law enforcement should be able to access encrypted nformation, etc. Poetically waxing about the effects of "writing your reps" is bullshit when they are entrenched with one anothe…

> Funny. I wrote my senator months ago about that encryption bill going around then. Just got a canned response back today, about how law enforcement should be able to access encrypted information, etc.

So give up then? Idk what you want me to tell you. I'd rather people just not even complain about anything if they're so disillusioned with the government that they think they are powerless, why even care about any problems at all?

> Maybe a better solution would be for the US to balkanize and allow localization to be more effective. Maybe a national identity more akin to the diverse regions of the US would be more like what you're describing.

I don't disagree, actually. Local government governs best. You'll see largely the most successful governments are have smaller populations, often times more homogenous (not necessarily race, but more so culture), and I'm not sure if it's a factor but I believe population density plays a role.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#118

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #74
yalogin wrote: post #61

Is WeChat even useful in the US? Is it used at all?

I'm guessing you don't have many Chinese friends, if you do I would recommend asking them how important it is for them. It is an essential form of communication for the large community of Chinese citizens in the US. If you have any Chinese friends I can promise you their families are worried about how they are going to keep in touch. It's also heavily used for intra-US communication in various Chinese communities. In…

It's a big pain, but surely they'll find another way to keep in touch, though?

What do western people do in China to keep in touch with their families back home, when all the western social media apps are banned?

It's hard for me to believe that a state-backed communications app is the only option available to Chinese expats.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#119

Post by mdorazio »

Bhilai wrote: post #94
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the ban evil is a bit hyperbolic IMO, or maybe just incomplete. Phones with the software could easily be compromised. Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. All these are real, legitimate reasons to ban it.

> The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. America is not China and should not frame its policies based on China's policies. While, I agree there is a need to retaliate but 'be like China' is hardly the way to do it.

What way do you think is the right way to do it?

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#120

Post by akhilcacharya »

justapassenger wrote: post #7
thesausageking wrote: post #3

[redacted]

> President who was elected in a large part because of a Facebook board member. This is super naive thinking that ignores real huge issues in USA around inequality.

Inequality? What exactly do you mean?
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