US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns • Hacker News Board

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#71

Post by johnnyfaehell » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #34

peacefulhat wrote: post #20

WeChat ban is just evil, no justifiable benefit. Almost all the users in America are overseas Chinese who use it to talk to friends and family in China and send money.

Calling the ban evil is a bit hyperbolic IMO, or maybe just incomplete. Phones with the software could easily be compromised. Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. All these are real, legitimate reasons to ban it.

> Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily.

This is true of all apps coming out of the US with the NSA. Should Google, Facebook, Netflix be banned in Europe?

> and we're entering a trade war.

The trade war started a while ago and I'm pretty sure China is winning it.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#72

Post by tuna-piano » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

Good points. It's crazy the level of power I'm learning our executive branch has... Government is dangerous without checks and balances.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#73

Post by stickfigure » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

I'm confused: How does the executive branch have the right to unilaterally edit app stores? If Trump says "I'm sick of Barron playing CandyCrush at the dinner table, let's just ban it" can he do that? How? Shouldn't this require legislation?

As an American, this seems very... "unamerican".

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#74

Post by baron_harkonnen » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #61

Is WeChat even useful in the US? Is it used at all?

I'm guessing you don't have many Chinese friends, if you do I would recommend asking them how important it is for them.

It is an essential form of communication for the large community of Chinese citizens in the US. If you have any Chinese friends I can promise you their families are worried about how they are going to keep in touch. It's also heavily used for intra-US communication in various Chinese communities. In the NYC area there is almost an entire other city available to WeChat users.

It's a big, and I do believe intentional, 'fuck you' to the Chinese community.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#75

Post by vbezhenar » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #42

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

So, separate from the Trump Administration's actual motivations (which I think are at best vague and at worst petty retaliation), I thought this NY Times editorial made a pretty strong case in favor of banning these platforms: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opinion/tiktok-wechat-ban... TikTok and WeChat benefit from being the only social networks that can be accessed from all of the largest internet markets in th…

Imagine that Russia bans Facebook because of those reasons. Do you think that would be a good move?

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#76

Post by entropea » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #61

Is WeChat even useful in the US? Is it used at all?

There are many immigrants in the USA who use it to communicate with family.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#77

Post by CWuestefeld » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

This seems narrowly tailored to two apps.

Doesn't that make it a Bill of Attainder, which is unconstitutional? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder

A bill of attainder (also known as an act of attainder or writ of attainder or bill of penalties) is an act of a legislature declaring a person, or a group of persons, guilty of some crime, and punishing them, often without a trial.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#78

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

chromedev wrote: post #64

shajznnckfke wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. If TikTok sued the US government under this theory, the government might need to make the argument in court to defend the lawsuit. There’s no requirement for the government to preemptively make a showing in court before it does everything.

Why would that not be abused as a means of political oppression? You could just sue your opponents and it would be guilty until proven innocent.

Suing and the associated guilty until proven innocent threat absolutely are abused in politics and in every day life.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#79

Post by vbezhenar » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #2

US Government just provided another case study in why we need to be able to side load apps.

Ban is a heavy word. Can Google issue command to android phones to stop running some particular program? For example as a security measure to stop malware? I think that Google have that ability, even if that malware was side-loaded. Apple definitely can do that on Macs. That feature could be abused to prevent running any forbidden program and side-load won't help you.

Android is still better than iOS in that regard, because it's open source and you can disable anything. Just side-loading might not be enough.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#80

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

chance_state wrote: post #58

busheezy wrote: post #6

It seems like WeChat access is pretty hard to get in the US currently if you don't know anyone that uses it. I registered an account to try and get support for my Ender 3D printer(nightmare). After a few fields the app asked me to have my sponsor enter my number and I wasn't able to progress further so I uninstalled.

Wait what? You need a "sponsor" to use WeChat?

To use the Chinese version of WeChat.