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Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#141

Post by floatingatoll »

the8472 wrote: post #68
mulmen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone blame the postal service? Yes? Do you think the USPS does nothing to detect bombs in the mail? You can’t earn trust by saying “that’s not my problem.”

Ok, fine, they scan for bombs. So people shift to mailing sealed anthrax envelopes (which has happened). A public service is also going to be used by criminals, yet we do not expect the service to be shut down.

We absolutely expect public utilities be shut down temporarily when danger exists. This happens with gas, fire, electric. In 2001, when USPS first encountered the 'sealed anthrax envelopes' problem, they shut down lots of post offices for quite some time.

Your framing suggests that Firefox Send was a 'public utility', held to the same standard as a power company or a gas company, required to provide service to all who seek it. Firefox Send was not a 'public utility', though, and so it need not be temporary to shut it down in the face of attackers. Apparently the Firefox group decided to make it permanent.

What if Gmail was shutdown without notice tomorrow? Would any lawsuit have standing if refunds were issued that same day? Would free users have any recourse whatsoever? It isn't a public utility, right?

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#142

Post by quyleanh »

timvisee wrote: post #67

Sad! Developer of `ffsend` here. I've built `ffsend` as CLI tool for Send to securely share files from the command line. It has been a great success! Thanks Mozilla, for building and providing this amazing service! For the interested: https://github.com/timvisee/ffsend I'm currently hosting a public Send instance myself to ffsend keep working. Let's see how long I can keep this going (and funded).

Your tool is very useful for me. Have used it since a long time.

First transfer.sh and now Firefox Send are closed. What service should I trust to send file quickly and securely.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#143

Post by cbkeller »

timvisee wrote: post #67

Sad! Developer of `ffsend` here. I've built `ffsend` as CLI tool for Send to securely share files from the command line. It has been a great success! Thanks Mozilla, for building and providing this amazing service! For the interested: https://github.com/timvisee/ffsend I'm currently hosting a public Send instance myself to ffsend keep working. Let's see how long I can keep this going (and funded).

Thank you for building this and keeping it running!

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#144

Post by propogandist »

fzzzy wrote: post #110
propogandist wrote: post #41

they were using s3 for file storage. This was likely just burning incredible amount of cash and had absolutely no monetization angle in play.

We had the monetization angle in place from before Send shipped. Charge a small monthly fee. Management didn't care.

What was the angle they were after then...people will use it so much and love it that they will use FF?

Was there any angle at play other than releasing it? It was a great feature and even a small fee would've been more viable than freemium only.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#145

Post by dralley »

nanagojo wrote: post #139
jdashg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servo was never actually the heir-apparent to Gecko.

You sure? https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/04/03/mozilla-and-samsung... > Servo is an attempt to rebuild the Web browser from the ground up on modern hardware, rethinking old assumptions along the way.

1) That was written in 2013

2) It was an attempt to rebuild a browser engine up from the ground up on modern hardware - and large parts of that work landed in Firefox.

I've tracked their progress for quite some time. There was never a concrete plan to replace the DOM handling components of Gecko with the DOM handling components of Servo.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#146

Post by DigitalSea »

basch wrote: post #85
binaryjay wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely amazing how some people can find new ways to blame Google for something they had nothing to do with. Just Incredible. Additionally, if it had not been for the money given to Mozilla by Google the development of Firefox would have severely been in decline and possibly abandoned. >And this is why we all should have shouted louder when Google set this precedent five years ago. Do you also shout loud when…

Microsoft is the anti-example. They discontinue something and then support it for years. Sometimes way longer than they should.

Mixer sends its regards...

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#147

Post by chaosharmonic »

fanatic2pope wrote: post #104
thesimon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and Management division may force in future to ditch Gecko and adopt Webkit/Blink in the hope that it could bring more userbase (just my thought) to lessen maintainance and focus on revenue. They laid off most people working on Servo, so the adoption of WebKit/Blink seems rather likely.

If they switched to webkit there'd be no more reason to use it over degoogled chromium.

I mean, a WebKit-based Firefox would at least be a distinct engine, and a cross-platform one at that. (WebKit isn't very well-represented on Windows in particular.)

Contrast a Blink-based FF, which would basically just be Brave.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#148

Post by binaryjay »

MauranKilom wrote: post #91
binaryjay wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely amazing how some people can find new ways to blame Google for something they had nothing to do with. Just Incredible. Additionally, if it had not been for the money given to Mozilla by Google the development of Firefox would have severely been in decline and possibly abandoned. >And this is why we all should have shouted louder when Google set this precedent five years ago. Do you also shout loud when…

Your argument would be stronger if that list was actually products and services. Listing every MS store ever closed and every platform or every version of a no-longer-sold product line makes it meaningless. I mean, that list has MS-DOS. To which we still have backwards compatibility. And it's twice as old as Google. Also, tone.

Every one of those stores provided support for the products they sold so calling it meaningless is ridiculous.

>I mean, that list has MS-DOS. To which we still have backwards compatibility.

Last time I checked I needed to use DOSBox to be able to run the majority of old DOS games and apps. So much for backward compatibility, I guess.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#149

Post by shard »

varbhat wrote: post #36
varbhat wrote: post #22

Looks like Mozilla is becoming VPN company shifting it's previous focus which was on browserware. Mozilla VPN seems to be just rebranded resell of Mullavad VPN with Mozilla Goodies. Mozilla Monitor seems to use https://haveibeenpwned.com/ (also as seen in Firefox desktop) Mozilla Firefox Private Network looks like another Cloudflare Warp's rebrand (with litte good additions maybe?) seeing that it uses Cloudflare . Mo…

I am getting very much downvoted. Any fallacy in my reply? Please tell me so that i can correct it in future

I know it's against HN policy to complain about downvotes, but I think your response is not covered under that rule in that you are looking to learn, not to vent. You have my upvote, at least.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#150

Post by Reelin »

timvisee wrote: post #119
neolog wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what you'll do when people start sharing illegal content?

Good question. Simple answer: no. I've thought about it though, but haven't settled on anything yet. I can't inspect files. I'll add an abuse report notice soon, abuse@ is already live. I'll attempt to manually review cases. That doesn't prevent illegal sharing, but I think that's the best I can do. If things get out of hand, I might take the instance down. I don't want to support hosting illegal stuff. A newer Send…

Earlier you said the max file TTL is 1 day. That's brief enough that it seems the only meaningful action you could take much of the time would be to log the incident and report it to the proper authorities.

Between the short TTL and E2E encryption, I'm struggling to think of any legal obligations you would have in most western jurisdictions. Perhaps logging in some places? Even the DMCA permits more than 24 hours to respond to a takedown notice.

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