Earlier quoted context omitted.
Epic already had standing to sue from the $300 million in Fortnite IAP fees Apple has collected. They already "suffered harm", they did not need to do anything further in order to sue.
You are fixated on this because of my imprecise use of the legal term "standing", but it's not really relevant. Standing to bring a suit that will probably get thrown out on summary judgement is not useful. What's relevant is that there is harm to consumers here and Epic needed to specifically demonstrate it to have a real chance of prevailing in an antitrust case. An allegedly illegal contract should not restrain th…
Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#622Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are fixated on this because of my imprecise use of the legal term "standing", but it's not really relevant. Standing to bring a suit that will probably get thrown out on summary judgement is not useful. What's relevant is that there is harm to consumers here and Epic needed to specifically demonstrate it to have a real chance of prevailing in an antitrust case. An allegedly illegal contract should not restrain th…
I'm not sure you actually understand the issue, it's not simply a question of terminology. Whether consumer harm exists or not is a question to be determined during the trial, not before.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#623I think Apple’s brain drain over the last decade is finally starting to show. This undermines their entire user-facing SSO strategy with anyone paying attention. (The dev-facing “implement our SSO or you can’t be on the iPhone” isn’t really a “strategy” per se.) Of course apps will have to support it to be in the App Store, but this means that any user paying attention now knows that their accounts/logins for PAID SE…
> I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform This is a really ignorant and pretty crazy comment. Apple is this year moving to their own silicon and likely next year we will see the fruits of the large number of AR/VR acquisitions. Seems to me like you would need a lot of specialist talent to do both.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#624Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they won't be able to support iOS, they can just launch their own "store" for Android. Similar to Amazon's. Though I'm half surprised Steam hasn't done this. I do question the justification of the 30% cut they all seem to take.
Valve introduced Steam machines and those flopped.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#625Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Games are often very low margin products Yeah, so, did you check how much Epic earns with fortnite? I wont call this 'low margin' at all.
Profit margin is about the percentage they make after costs have been factored in. Their profit margin is indeed low; 12% of the revenue... compared to Apple who takes 30%. See https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-revenue-split-explaine... . So my point is absolutely valid and it is shocking that Apple makes almost 3 times more money from Fortnight than Epic makes. Imagine spending years building an app and then som…
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#626Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you saying here exactly? arm64 CPUs aren't real CPUs?
No, I’m saying that video game consoles are a very apt comparison because they’re x86. I made no mention of ARM or whether Apple is right or wrong.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#627Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, I can see that my opinion is getting super-downvoted. But I genuinely fail to understand why developers' opinions should be treated with so much reverence. It sounds to me like the _only_ reason developers are clamoring against the App Store is because some fraction of developers are unhappy about a high commission. It's on the same lines are some people out there unhappy about Apple's high prices. In both cases,…
> Pay software engineers on their payroll to help Spotify sell music on the iPod (oops; I mean iPhone)? Well, Microsoft did that, they developed the Spotify app for Windows Phone back in the day. > I am sincerely trying to understand _why_ would any developer _need_ to take this expense if they cannot afford it? Can't you develop a web app instead? I guess because such a large portion of phone users use iPhone, not d…
> Well, Microsoft did that, they developed the Spotify app for Windows Phone back in the day. I was trying to be _too clever_ in my reference. What I was trying to say is that there's no moral highground for the developer community to stand on and demand that Apple reduce their commission or allow sideloading on the iPhone. A similar argument demanding that Apple open up iPods for 3rd party apps would've never sounded reasonable when Apple had the largest revenue share or market share or whatever share of the digital music player market. The exact same situation applies to the iPhone as well.
What Microsoft did was because they had no leverage. Apple beat them to market and successfully attracted enough developers to write apps. Sure Apple's platforms benefit from having 3P developers, but that doesn't mean they should set prices based on what 3P devs feel is "fair". If devs don't like the iPhone they should've developed for Windows Phone.
>I guess because such a large portion of phone users use iPhone, not developing for iOS means you remove yourself from competing about not only those customers but others as well. Say you develop a chat app (fat chance of that now but anyways), a large portion of Android users will say "It's nice and all but because some of my friends have iPhones I want to be able to chat with them as well."
> So quite simply, you need to be where the customers are and customers want native apps not web apps. They don't want to open Safari or Chrome or Firefox, type in a URL and some login credentials. It's too much of a nuisance. So if you don't write a native app some one else will and then they take all your customers...
Yes I completely agree with all these points. That is precisely what costs 30% of your app's revenue. The argument around "fairness" doesn't apply because the value provided by the platform is massive. It's the same reason why any argument comparing the iPhone to a Mac or PC wouldn't apply either. You can always build a web-app that's based on open standards and pay the price of losing to a competitor who will build a richer native app.
I'm a legal expert or something. As a developer myself, I find the arguments presented by the dev community against the App store & it's commission self-serving and hypocritical. That's just the cost of doing business on an iPhone. It's expensive! So the best thing to do is to go out there and build for every other phone maker.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#628Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish Mozilla would join them by publishing a Firefox for iOS with their own renderer and Javascript (which they have been prevented from doing). Get booted and join the lawsuit. That's the activist Mozilla I can get behind.
How is Mozilla to do that? AFAIK Epic did their move by pushing "legal" iOS code, then doing an over-the-air update of adding non-Apple payment system. Mozilla can't just push a rendering & JavaScript engine "over the air".
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#629Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might have been the average apple user 20 years ago, but times have changed.
My point is your perception is YOUR problem - not those who use something for their own benefit. Also fuck your opinion of anyone using A Mac. Seriously. Fuck off.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#630Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google is totally involved. They aren’t as egregious about it as Apple, but they are equally guilty of stomping out competition. If you get blacklisted from Google Play, you’re basically done. Your cost for acquiring new users just skyrocketed because you now have to somehow educate people on how to enable “unknown sources”, convince them to ignore all of the incessant scary warnings about malware, etc. on top of you…
Google is involved in Epic's dispute with Apple? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that anywhere. Could you clarify?
Epic is suing Google at the same time for the same reason as Apple. Maybe they're not "involved" if you mean that Apple and Google are colluding against Epic, but they're both the subjects of the same discussion.