This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…
This applies to any business that operates a store, and a business that sells a product within that store. Replace software with retail in your example, it doesn't sound so abnormal "Walmart can, at will, remove your entire line of potato chips from your (their) customers and your existance in their stores is just gone."
Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
451–460 of 638 posts
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are relatively smaller and if they win this fight, all the little guys that are rooting for them will win as well. Here's a visualization so you can see how much smaller a billion is than a trillion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAoK38U8gDU
I mean, I understand that. My issue is that it feels like Epic is being dishonest. Their motives are clearly self-interested: they want the ability to run their own Epic Store so they can secure more profits than going through Apple. So when they try to act like they're the little guy fighting for what's in people's best interests — that leaves a sour taste in my mouth, regardless of whether the outcome is for the be…
I’m a little guy. Am I a bad guy though because I want freedom for me and my own customers to interface digitally with one another without going through Apple? Half of my customers have an iPhone and Apple didn’t bring these customers to me they were mine.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#453This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
The comparison is the they are both devices that limit installation of software. They're rather similar in that regard. I'm not sure that "This product can only exist if you allow us to have a monopoly" is justification for allowing a monopoly when it comes to video games consoles.
There is some public good in selling consoles as loss leaders; it allows disadvantaged people to participate. Video games are becoming a big part of our culture, and it sucks that participating in that culture requires spending a bunch of money on hardware every generation. I also think there are more substantial differences. The most major being the difficulty in switching. Switching consoles means losing my data mo…
And an inability to play every game you've purchased. Even if you didn't buy the games digitally, it'd be amazingly difficult to resell your games to buy the same ones for a different platform. Heck, just look at all the groaning online about Epic store exclusive games because people didn't want to have to deal with Steam AND Epic launchers.
>I am also curious how first-party software will be handled. Is it okay to have a closed marketplace on your own software if that marketplace only serves your software?
Similarly, why should only Epic be able to sell skins for Fortnite?
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#455I know, I'm old.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's called the PC market. Consoles are nothing but closed PCs. Eh.. no, I think this is reductive. In addition to being closed PCs, consoles are also an OS and collection of services that make playing games easier and make the process of configuring the device easy. They also often come with unique hardware (3DS, Wii U, Switch, Vita) that offer dedicated features that don't make sense on PCs. Most importantly, con…
> They also often come with unique hardware (3DS, Wii U, Switch, Vita) that offer dedicated features that don't make sense on PCs. I disagree about unique hardware not making sense on PCs. Can you provide examples? 3DS and Vita are about the size of a raspberry pi and with some added sensors and controllers. The Wii's controller is pretty similar to the HTC Vive's wand which connects to a PC just fine. > consoles are…
Sure, you could create these things in a PC format, but what I'm getting at is that nobody has. They don't make sense in the current PC market. Selling games that need special non-universal peripherals is really hard. Not impossible (Guitar hero pulled it off), but very difficult.
The HTC Vive is a good example of that. It's about as close to a general peripheral as you can get on the current market (and even it strays irritatingly close to "platform" status). But VR is a wildly niche market. It's nowhere near the market penetration of the 3DS or Wii.
I don't mean that those peripherals can't be built for PC, I mean that we don't have compelling evidence that it makes sense to build them primarily targeting PCs.
> to make running any software and take advantage of any hardware.
You can tune a game way more if you're not targeting 'any' hardware -- it's a lot easier if you're targeting one piece of hardware that works one way.
Take a look at the incredible work that emulators like Citra and Dolphin are doing right now. Reverse engineering the API is only one piece of that puzzle, another big challenge is dealing with the games that are designed to take advantage of hardware quirks and undocumented behaviors.
It's a huge simplification to say that those emulators/games are just based on the API and nothing else. They're often emulating wildly specific behaviors that wouldn't be standardized across multiple implementations of the same API on multiple pieces of hardware. That's why its a such a huge engineering challenge to build an emulator in the first place -- you're constantly balancing accuracy and performance, figuring out when you need to load and emulate specific hardware features.
> Rendering APIs, hardware controllers, and sensors are all standardized. What more do you need?
If you make a game for Switch today, you need to target one aspect ratio at two resolutions, and a very small, finite set of controller layouts. If you tried to release a PC game with those kinds of restrictions, you'd be laughed out of the market.
As someone who's currently working on supporting multiple controllers for a PC game, it's really stinking annoying. Even aftermarket XBox controllers will occasionally just report entirely separate button layouts depending on the OS they're being used with. I can't even just read the hardware codes and base the layout on that, I have controllers that map buttons differently depending on whether I'm in Ubuntu or Manjaro. Libraries like SDL2 help a bit with that, but even then the situation isn't perfect and you often end up making multiple control schemes that degrade gracefully when features are missing.
And from a consumer perspective, minimum requirements for PCs aren't really a scientific thing. People don't know what their GPUs are, they don't have that information in front of them when they go to a store. They buy games as gifts for other people who's PCs they've never seen.
Compare all that to, "does Billy have the Wii U? Cool, then Smash Bros will just work on it."
You could have something like that in the PC space if everybody got together and we had industry-wide standardization on certain requirements or parts for PCs, I can imagine that existing. But it doesn't exist right now, and it's not clear to me that most PC game developers would want that (I wouldn't), and it's not clear to me that current PC-gamers want that (I don't).
It's not a propriety vs Open thing. If someone wants to make a console that has all of its specs completely open and uses off the shelf parts, then fine. Consumers won't care either way. Consumers care about being able to look at exactly one logo on a game disk that indicates the game will play perfectly on every device that shares that logo.
The PC market is not even close to that goal, you're greatly overestimating how standardized even the average Windows install is, and that gets even worse once we start talking about more freedom-friendly OSes like Linux.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am amazed that this obviously false claim has been repeated a dozen times in this thread. Epic already has suffered economic harm based on the $300 million in Fortnite IAP fees Apple has previously collected. They already had standing to sue to get those fees back. They did not need to do anything else. > In fact, the judge did not suggest they do so because absent economic harm Epic had no standing to sue until Ap…
Antitrust requires demonstrating harm to consumers, not just to Epic.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#458This is why you should avoid Apple entirely. They can do this to you, your company, your apps. I'm a big fan of FOSS as much as possible.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#459Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
So which is better: having no Fortnite at all or having no Fortnite in the App Store with the option to sideload. If you strictly want to stay in the App Store then nothing changes for you and the situation is neither worse nor better. If you just want to play Fortnite on your iPhone and don't care about the App Store then the latter option is a better.
The last part of the GP comment still stands: > which of course led to hundreds of fake and infected apps on the net, harming users. > If you just want to play Fortnite on your iPhone and don't care about the App Store then the latter option is a better. Not unless you get a Fortnite that has an ad at the bottom of the screen and ships as much PII as it can to some third-party company, or offers 2x v-bucks and steals…
The app stores are facilitating that in a way though. They're keeping the users as dumb as possible and not making any effort to differentiate between legitimate or malicious apps that are sideloaded.
If it were a matter of going to epicgames.com, clicking "Install for Android", and confirming a prompt that says "You're about to install an app from epicgames.com", I think it would be a lot easier to train users to understand that.