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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#161

Post by Talyen42 »

supernovae wrote: post #84
tehwebguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly, and please be specific, do you think Apple is doing that is wrong? It is not clear from your comments.

In the case of Microsoft, they denied the Xbox gaming app on the store after it had already been going through wide beta use on ios. They denied it on the grounds that they need to review every xbox game. Which is nonsense. They don't review every netflix movie, they don't review every spotify song, they don't review other content. The app that was denied doesn't actually download the games either, its a remote/onlin…

Games can have stores, marketplaces, platforms, and other arbitrary interactive stuff running inside of them, whereas movies and songs are more or less functionally identical in technical capability (although it would be funny if Netflix put a subscribe button inside a free movie to bypass Apple!)

Amazon didn't cut a deal, you can't subscribe to prime video in the app without using Apple's IAP payment system. You can only subscribe outside the app.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#162

Post by wvenable »

mikestew wrote: post #120
cletus wrote: post #23

So this showdown between Epic and Apple is really interesting. My thoughts: 1. Epic had to know Apple would go nuclear. If they didn't, they're completely incompetent. Let's assume that's not the case. So Epic was itching for a fight. Maybe they were delusional about Fortnite's power here? 2. Apple is going nuclear here. The message is that Apple wants to crush this. This is Apple making an example of Epic. It looks…

I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. Considering that one can get payment processing for a tenth of Apple's fee, I consider Apple's 30% to be outright usurious. I would be a little more forgiving if that same fee bought some discovery in the App Store, but no. Or maybe faster app reviews. Okay, finally; after how many years of multiple week waits?

Apple makes $500 million a year on app store search ads (they expected to make $2 billion this year). It's crazy that you pay 30% of every purchase to be listed in a store -- but that means nothing -- you still have to pay to be visible.

You have people in this thread that are shocked anyone would side with Epic because they obviously broke the agreement but on the other you have people amazed that you can justify paying hundreds of dollars in markup per device, then be charged 30% for any software, and then developers still have to pay annually for access and pay for visibility. And even attempting to tell users cheaper ways to pay isn't allowed. It's like people desperately want to chuck all their income at Apple like dollars to a stripper.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#163

Post by fooey »

gpm wrote: post #36

Apple is doing it's absolute best to allow Epic to demonstrate irreparable harm in their motion for a preliminary injunction... This is a curious decision considering that the primary distinction between the part of the temporary restraining order the court granted (against Apple interfering with unreal engine) and the part the court denied (against Apple interfering with fortnite) was that the court thought that Epi…

The judge ruled there is no irreparable harm because it's trivial for Epic themselves to repair the harm at any time that they themselves caused.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#164

Post by dbxgiri »

I'm the guy who created the ORIGINAL system what Apple selling as "Sign in with Apple". [My system uses the industry standards like OAuth2. Apple ditched OAuth2 just to steal my work]

This EPIC GAMES ban isn't "personal" as you all think.

If Apple don't ban "Sign in with Apple" for epic games, then Apple is very much screwed. That's because I wrote the patent claim in such a way.

This is my patent claim: https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/claim11-12.pn...

This is the result.

https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/swjs2.png

I'm afraid to tell you that "Sign in with Apple" ban on EPIC GAMES is just only a BEGINNING.

If you get banned from the "App Store", you cannot use the email address you collected via "Sign in with Apple". Period.

This is a blog post I wrote to warn the developers few months back. https://www.domboxmail.com/news/apple-copied-our-product

Someone who had gone through my blog post shared the blog post in HackerNews 4 months back. Our wonderful Hacker news users flagged the post, because they all believes Apple is a wonderful company.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22875499

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#165

Post by DonaldPShimoda »

danShumway wrote: post #64
smnrchrds wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy So many people say "oh, Epic is not the underdog. They are a huge corporation themselves. They do not deserve my sympathy." As if they don't support this case, but would have supported it if it was brought by a small independent developer. As if it is morally wrong to support the case because it has been filed by a big company. But guess what, only a multi-billion dollar corpo…

I've commented to the same effect at least 2 or 3 times over the duration of this lawsuit, but just to keep repeating: if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you. A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. This stuff is important, and advocates for user-freedom and device ownership can't afford to put every company t…

I agree with you that a billion-dollar company is practically necessary to fight Apple on issues like this.

What I don't like, though, is that Epic are trying to portray themselves as the little guy fighting for the users' rights throughout all this, as seen in the "Nineteen Eighty-Fortnite" ad. They're being dishonest in their self-image, and that taints my perception of them because I wonder what else they're being dishonest about.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#166

Post by dragonwriter »

CharlesW wrote: post #149
danShumway wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. They re-engineered their app to fit in with Apple's terms offering a completely new service on the platform. And there were no changes to Apple's terms as a result of that, and no net benefit to any other developer. The only benefit that came out of the controversy over Hey was that Epic got another example incident they…

> It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. Hey got what they wanted, as did Apple. This is the way. It's amusing that people think Epic is doing this for the good of anyone other than themselves.

> It's amusing that people think Epic is doing this for the good of anyone other than themselves.

It's amusing that people defending Apple have trouble understanding the difference between effects and motivations.

The issue of why people who aren't Epic want Epic to succeed has never been about why Epic is pursuing the endeavour.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#167

Post by mythz »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #124
mythz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic went this route to inflict maximum PR damage, they could've sued without willfully violating their contract which hurt their legal case as they've now entered into the lawsuit with unclean hands which was one of the considerations used to deny their injunction for Fortnite.

They needed to do it this way to ensure they had standing to bring a suit as they can now non-hypothetically prove they've been harmed.

This is untrue. Their harm was of their own making which was why the Judge dismissed their injunction:

> The Court finds that with respect to Epic Games’ motion as to its games, including Fortnite, Epic Games has not yet demonstrated irreparable harm. The current predicament appears of its own making. Epic strategically chose to breach its agreements with Apple

How can purposefully violating someone's contract be a prerequisite for bringing a lawsuit against the organization whose contract you're violating? Where is the legal argument backing up "They needed to do it this way"?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#168

Post by pbalau »

foota wrote: post #134
hello_tyler wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.

I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.

You should never fight the law, you should fight to change the law.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#169

Post by judge2020 »

fsociety wrote: post #123
jmpman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

I’m not sure how you can compare a closed ecosystem with essential services - phone, email, text, 2FA, emergency warnings, heart monitoring, medicine tracking, banking, etc. - with a closed ecosystem that runs games. Mobile phones are how many individuals interface with the rest of the world. Not to mention your case gets worse when there are way less restrictions on releasing games on Xbox/PlayStation/Switch than on…

The closed ecosystem with essential services is also a closed ecosystem that runs games. It's also millions or billions of peoples' primary gaming device. iPod Touch exists almost solely to play games on.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#170

Post by fooey »

ping_pong wrote: post #112

To me Apple is only proving Epic's point. Don't you dare make Apple mad, otherwise your entire business on Apple ecosystem will be destroyed.

All it's showing is that breaking contracts has repercussions.

If you abuse a service, and they cut you off, you don't get to cry about them enforcing their rules.

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